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Old 02-19-2009, 03:56 PM
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Default conoscere vs. sapere

Sapere and Conoscere both mean "to know".

Here are the conjugations of both verbs:

sapere = to know
Io so = I know
Tu sai = you know
Lui/lei sa = he/she knows
Noi sappiamo = we know
Voi sapete = you (plural) know
Loro sanno = they know

Conoscere = to know
Io conosco = I know
Tu conosci = You know
Lui/lei conosce = he/she knows
Noi conosciamo = we know
Voi conoscete = you (plural) know
Loro conoscono = they know

These verbs both mean "to know" but not in the same sense.

Sapere is used for knowing facts and information, and to know how to do something.

Examples: I know how to cook = So cucinare
I know where he lives = So dove abita.
I know his name. = So come si chiama.

Conoscere is used to know people, places, famous people, works of art, songs, etc.

Examples: I know Marco = Conosco Marco.
I know Rome = Conosco Roma.
I know this restaurant = Conosco questo ristorante.


To express that you know how to do something, take the congugated form of sapere and then add any infinitve you need:

they know how to drive = Sanno guidare
we know how to speak Italian. = sappiamo parlare italiano.
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Old 02-19-2009, 07:04 PM
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Complimenti Giacomo.

Allora, don't forget to make flashcards of these verbs and all your Italian vocabulary words. Your Italian vocabulary flashcards should be
your constant companions. You should always have them with you, and you should pull them out several times each day,
even if you only look at them for a couple of minutes. Take them with you to that visit to the doctor's/dentist office,
job interview, unemployement office, barber shop/beauty parlor, the gym, grocery store, get together with friends, il bagno,
pull them out while you're waiting in line at the post office, movie theatre, while on the Life in Italy forum, while drinking vino,
watching television, listening to the radio etc. etc.
(It really is fun and interesting to study your Italian flash cards and or Italian books.)
Other wise the above lesson doesn't have as much meaning. So don't waste anymore time complaining that you just can't seem
to learn Italian. Of course you can't seem to learn Italian because you haven't made your Italian flashcards and
you're not listening to Italian every day. Make Italian flashcards, study them every day and listen to Italian every
day and those Italian words will just start flowing out of your mouth. Otherwise you're just fooling yourself about learning Italian.
Markymark, Have you made your Italian flashcards? You should have 100's and 100's of them ormai.(by now)
Mark, I know you've downloaded your free Italian audio books. Non e vero? http://www.liberliber.it I'm listening
to them right now even as we speak. Non ho tempo di perdere.

A proposito/A proposito the above lesson on conoscere vs sapere is a good example of how people missed the boat by not learning Spanish.
If you know Spanish then you already know this concept and these two verbs. It's just one example of many of the advantages of knowing
Spanish when you learn Italian e naturalmente/naturalmente visa versa. So look on the brightside of things. Now when you
go to learn Spanish you'll already know this concept.

In Spanish as in Italian there are two verbs that express the idea "to know." These two verbs are "conocer"(conoscere) and "saber."(sapere) The verb you
choose depends upon the context in which it is used. These verbs are not interchangeable.

The situation with regards to the correct use of saber/sapere and conocer/conoscere can be summarized as follows:

saber/sapere
to know a fact, to know something thoroughly, to know how to do something

conocer/conoscere
to be acquainted with a person, place, or thing

Saber/Sapere vs Conocer/Conoscere

saber/sapere: to know (facts, information, how to do something, something by heart)
conocer/conoscere: to know (to be familiar with people, places, things)

To express knowledge or ignorance of a fact or information about something, use "saber."

Juan sabe donde está María.
Juan knows where Maria is.

Yo no sé tu número de teléfono.
I don't know your telephone number.

To say that one is or is not acquainted with a person, a place, or an object, use conocer.

Yo no conozco a María.
I don't know (am not acquainted with) Maria.

Alberto y Alfredo conocen Madrid.
Alberto and Alfredo know (are acquainted with) Madrid.

To express knowledge or ignorance of a subject or learning discipline, use saber or conocer, depending upon the context.

Juan no sabe nada de inglés.
Juan doesn't know any English.

Él sabe matemáticas.
He knows mathematics.

Juan conoce la literatura española.
Juan is familiar with Spanish literature.

To express knowledge or ignorance of a skill, or how to do something, use saber + infinitive.

María sabe conducir.
Maria knows how to drive.

No sé nadar muy bien.
I don't know how to swim very well.

To say that you know something by heart, use saber.

María sabe los verbos irregulares.
Maria knows the irregular verbs (by heart).

Ella no sabe la letra de esa canción.
She doesn't know the words to that song.

Last edited by Villa; 02-19-2009 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 02-19-2009, 07:52 PM
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Default Villa is right

Villa, you're absolutley right. Once you know one of the Romance languages, then learning another one becomes so much easier.

For example, in French there are also two verbs "to know"...they are savoir and connaitre. They are used in pretty much the exact same way as in Italian and Spanish.

Villa is also right when he says that Flashcards are helpful. Make them and use them as often as possible!
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Old 02-20-2009, 06:59 AM
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Default

You two make it sound so simple. lol

If Romance languages are easy to learn after learning one of them then why do I know some Spanish and some Italian but only about 5 words of French?

I know French is a romance language but sometimes I wonder how. To me it's way different from Spanish and Italian.

I do listen to Italian everyday. I haven't made any flash cards yet, but I think I'll be taking that suggestion.
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Old 02-20-2009, 02:11 PM
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Default It's NOT easy!

we never said it was easy. All we mean is that once you have COMPLETELY mastered one romace language, then learning another one becomes simpler. Now, it takes a lot of practice and study before you can call yourself proficient. I have been studying French and Spanish for about 15 years and I am still not perfect at it. Learning a new language after the age of 12 is VERY difficult!
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Old 02-20-2009, 05:18 PM
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Yes, learning stuff is so much easier as a child. Only if I wasn't so much in a hurry to become an adult.

I'm not even close to being perfect in Spanish or Italian, but I understand those two languages better than French. I can pick up on words and sentences better. The only thing that is extremely complicated for me in Spanish and Italian is the rolling of the r's. I don't know if I'll ever get that down.

Like I said, I know French is a romance language, but it just seems so different from Spanish and Italian.

I don't intend on even going on vacation to France, so that's fine with me. I'll stick to doing my best trying to learn Italian on my own and more Spanish.
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Old 02-20-2009, 06:41 PM
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Default OK

Well,

French sounds very different from Italian because it is pronouced quite differently. However, being a person who speaks a good amount of Italian (and who is qualified to teach French and Spanish) I can tell you that French and Italian grammar are quite similar.

Villa and I actually had a conversation about this sometime ago. If you would like, go onto my profile and click on statistics and find the post. We went into rather great detail.

Last edited by Giacomo; 02-20-2009 at 06:45 PM.
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Old 02-20-2009, 07:05 PM
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Default Adults can learn languages better and faster than children

It has been proven over and over again that adults learn languages better and faster than children at least at first with TPR.
The problem is how adults have been traditionally taught forgein languages. When adults learn language with TPR (following
commands)they learn much faster and better than children do. So you need to stop saying this about children learning faster
and better than adults. When you do it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy or a prediction that directly or indirectly causes
itself to become true. You are retarding your learning. So stop saying it. Who cares anyway if children learn faster. What
does that have to do with us. Try teaching a child a languge using the traditional way adults learn. It won't work molto bene.
Try teaching a child Algebra or anyother difficult subject. When you think of it that way you can see that adults learn
much faster and better than children. The thing about Children and language learning is they don't have the hang ups we
adults have. They learn language at play. We need to do some of that learning Italian by play. TPR is a form of playing
to learn a language. Have done several threads on learning Italian with TPR. Do a search on TPR(Total Physical Response)
I teach Italian with a combination of TPR and traditional methods.

Last edited by Villa; 02-20-2009 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 02-20-2009, 07:28 PM
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Default Think of learning Italian as a fun and very interesting hobby.

For people to be happy in life they need a hobby or hobbies. And what better hobby can there be than learning a second or 3rd or more languages.

Learning Italian is a fun and very interesting hobby and that's how we need to think of it. If you think of it as a game you play you'll
be much better off than thinking of it as hard work. Enjoy making those flash cards and studying them. Enjoy listening to Italian music
and listening to Italian audio libri(audio books). In this very minute while you Melissa and most people on this forum are wasting time
I'm listening to Italian audio books. Are you? Probably not. And then you groan and whine that you just can't seem to learn Italain.
People enjoy playing sports. They have fun playing a game of soccer, football, basketball, boxing, karate, wrestling or whatever sport.
They're having fun but that does not mean they are not working hard at it. They are playing hard and putting maximum effort into it. If
it's a team they are doing drills to improve their skills. Samething with learning Italian. You enjoy it. You have fun but you're also
working hard at it. This is one reason children can learn Italian easier. They play while learning.

Now put these words on flash cards. And stop whinning! LOL! Sto scherzando. Just kidding.
If you still don't know any Italian after 4 to 6 months of
studying and listening to Italian as much as possible then come
back and whine but not until you have put some serious
effort and time into learning and listening to Italian.

bene- well, (BAY-nay)
meglio- better,(MEL-yo)
peggio- worse (PEG-gee-oh)
male- badly, (MAH-lay_
anche- also (ON-kay
cosi- as, like (coe-SEE)
pure- also, too, (POO-ray)
insieme- together (in-see-EH-may)
come- as, like
invece (di) in-VAY-che (dee) - instead (of)


Adverbs of time:

Cuando?- When?
sempre- always,
mai- never, (my)
oggi- today,
domani- tomorrow,
ieri- yesterday, (YEER-ree)
adesso- now, ora-now,
allora- then, poi-then, (owl-OH-rah)
dopo- after,
dopo domani, the day after tomorrow
prima(di)- before,
ancora- still,yet, non ancora-not yet (an-CORE-rah)
spesso(frequentemente)- often,
stasera- tonight,
presto- early,soon,
tardi- late,
a tempo- on time,
gia- already,
subito & immediatamente- immediately, (SUE-be-toe)
di quando in quando- from time to time,
di solito- usually,
fa-ago, tre giorni fa- 3 days ago,
fino a- until,
frattanto- meanwhile,
raramente- rarely,seldom,
recentemente- recently, (ray-chin-tay-MINT-tay)
ultimo- last,
una volta- once,

Adverbs of Place:

Dove?-Where?,
lontano-far,
vicino-near, (vee-CHEE-no)
dietro-behind, (dee-EH-tro)
davanti-in front of,
avanti-forward, (ah-VAHN-tee)
indietro-backward,
dentro-inside,
fuori-outside,
qua,qui-here,
li,la-there
giu-down (jew)
laggiu-down there (lah-jew)
lassu-up there (lah-sue)
accanto a - beside
sopra-above
sotto-below
tra,fra-between
via-away (vada via!-get out of here!)
attraverso- through
intorno,attorno - around
da nessuna parte - nowhere
da qualche parte - somewhere
dappertutto- everywhere
a destra - to the right
a sinistra to the left

Adverbs of quantity:

Quanto?- How much?
molto-much
troppo-too much
poco-little
tanto-so much
abbastanza-enough
quasi-almost
piu-more
meno-less
circa-nearly, about
soltanto, solo, solamente-only
assai-much
piuttosto- rather Piuttosto caro. - Rather expensive.
probabilmente- probably
piu o meno- more or less
veramente- indeed, really
purtroppo- unfortunately

Le Domande - Questions

Come?- How
Quanto? How much
Quanti? Quante? How many?
Come mai?- How come?
Che? What?
Che cosa? What?
Quale? Which?
Chi?(key) Who?
Perche? Why?
Perche -because
Che tipo di...? What kind of...?
Dove? Where
Dove ci vediamo? Where shall we meet?

Aggettivi importante

buono- good
buffo- funny
caldo- hot
fredo- cold
caro- costly
cattivo- bad
celibe (CHAY-lee-bay) single male
aperto- open
chniuso- closed
corto- short
debole- weak
forte- strong
difficile- difficult
facile- easy
gentile- nice
giovane- young
grande- big
piccolo- little
grasso- fat
magro- skinny
innocente
lento- slow
libero- free, availiable
malato- sick
meschio- mean
morbido- soft
nubile- single female
nuovo- new
occupato- busy
pesante- heavy
piacevole- pleasant
piccante- spicy hot
pieno- full
pigro- lazy
primo - first
profondo- deep
sbagliato- mistaken
scuro- dark
secco- dry
sordo- deaf
sporco- dirty
pulito- clean
umido- humid
vecchio- old
vivace- active
vuoto- empty
zitto- quiet

Prepositions - Don't forget to make flash cards!!!

a- to, at
da- from, by, sometimes at
di- of sometimes from, about
in- in into sometimes by, on
su- on sometimes upon
con- with
per- for, through sometimes in order to + verb

Ho... I am... (literally have)
fame- hungry
freddo- cold
caldo- hot
paura- afraid
sete- thirst
sonno- sleepy
vergogna- ashamed

Il Nome - Nouns

il gatto- cat
il cane- dog
la carne- meat
il pane- bread
il topo- rat
il libro- book
la porta- door
la casa- house
la montangna- mountain
il albero- tree
la finestra- window
il finestrino- car or train window
il genitore- parent
la parente- relative (f.)
il parente- relative (m.)
la valigia- suitcase
la pioggia- rain
il sindaco- mayor
la spiaggia- beach
il denaro, il soldi- money
la lingua- language, tongue
il paese- country, small town
il postino- mailman
la posta- mail
la camera- room or bedroom also la camera di letto

Basic Vocabulary
English Italian
Yes Sì
No No
Please Per favore
Thank You Grazie
Thank you very much Grazie tante
You're Welcome Prego
Sorry Mi dispiace, Scusa, Scusi (Formal)
I don't understand Non capisco OR Non ho capito
Good luck Buona fortuna
How many? Quanti?
How much? Quanto?
I am Io sono
Keep quiet Silenzio
Let's go Andiamo
Please, repeat Prego, ripeta
Very good Bravo, complimenti
What is this? Che cos'è questo?
Where is it? Dov'è?
You are very kind Sei molto gentile
Who knows? Chi lo sa? (or simply "Chi sa")
What is your name Come ti chiami??
My name is... Mi chiamo ...


Greetings
Hello/Hi Ciao, Salve
Good morning Buon giorno
Good afternoon Buon pomeriggio
Good evening Buona sera
Good night Buona notte
Goodbye Arrivederci
Farewell Addio


[edit] Ordinal Numbers
First Primo
Second Secondo
Third Terzo
Fourth Quarto
Fifth Quinto
Sixth Sesto
Seventh Settimo
Eighth Ottavo
Ninth Nono
Tenth Diecimo
Eleventh Undicesimo
Twelfth Dodicesimo

Colours
English Italian
Black Nero
Blue (Dark) Blu
Blue (Azure) Azzurro
Brown Marrone
Cyan Ciano
Green Verde
Grey Grigio
Indigo Indaco
Magenta Magenta
Orange Arancione
Pink Rosa
Purple Viola
White Bianco
Yellow Giallo
Red Rosso

Just kidding about the whinning. But don't do it! LOL!

Last edited by Villa; 02-20-2009 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 02-20-2009, 08:06 PM
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Default I don't know

Villa,

I strongly disagree with you. Kids can learn five different languages at once when they are small. How many adults are there who can do this? Once you reach age twelve, it becomes quite hard to master a language...especially the pronunciation!! I know that I will always gave an accent in my French, Spanish, and Italian. There are Italians who have been in the USA for 50 years and they still make mistakes when they speak and have a heavy accent...their children though do not!
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