Some of my personal thougths:

Beauty of the Country : Both beautiful lets play it safe ok ….
Historical Monuments / Variety of landscape: Of course Italy has thousands of Medieval towns as well as Impressive Roman Greek Etruscan civilizations remains
Night Life Italy wins: dinner at 6pm is not allowed in the old country. Just look at the Estate Romana as one of the after dinner activities
Government bureaucracy No competition here either: Much easier to deal here in the US
MVA Well except the MVA : In Italy if you buy a used car / motorcycle all you do is go to a local ACI ( usually there is no line ) you pay a small fee and the car is in your name - In the US the Maryland MVA is extremely expensive ( You have to pay taxes again ) service is lousy and is extremely time consuming
Nepotism: A real big problem in Italy
Finding a job: Much easier in the US
Tax system : US wins – In Italy the system in awful.
Retirement: Both countries are good for retirement
Holidays: Italy has much more holidays - people should enjoy the only life they have for sure. If it still true workers get 5 weeks vacations in Italy + bridges etc etc.
Quality of life: Could be great in both places … as long as you have enough Dollar or Euros ….
Universities: I studies in both places and US universities where ( at least in the late 80s ) further ahead - The 2006 estimate of 42.000 dollar a year for expected expenses for a student a Cornell university is a scary number however.
Foreign Policy: US is still trying to the run the rest of the world.
Freedom of thought: Ok in both country
Chances to make it from nothing: If you are a poor immigrant in Italy you are in deep dudu.
Razism: Different culture / races mix better in the US … I think… I do not believe: that Italian are racists but until a few years ago Italy had virtually no other cultures. Today lots of immigrants come with no money and no prospect and they turn to crime to survive… anyway this maybe too long a subject…I will postpone it.
Sports: When Italy won the world cup the whole country East to West - North to South went crazy. The US do not have a 'united' popular sport to play against other country except the Olympics of course. Evan car races are separate from Formula one . To prove this note that if the redskins win is not a US win against the rest of the world, there are no celebrations for example in California
Heath Care: Free service in Italy: at least for major issues that requires Hospitalization all is taken care by the state.
Culture : what?
Music: Rock and Roll Rules !
Movies: Hollywood runs the box office.
Women: Better not touch this one, don't you think so ?
Man: Same as above.

Please add your thoughts....

I have to disagree with one point of yours, in particular retirement. In Italy a woman is treated better, than in the U.S.A. Here in Italy women get a "house wife's" ("pensione di casalinga") pension from the Italian government, that is based on all the years they were married: it takes into consideration the domestic work they have done and being financially compensated for it (housework, childbearing, other duties) via a pension fund. There is nothing of this in the works in the U.S.A. So, from this standpoint, I think, the Italian "way" offers more all-around for both men and women who work--whether at home doing domestic work or in a company, or public institution. Women's contribution to the gross domestic product (GDP) as an externality is acknowledged, unlike in the USA where such economic contribution is not taken into account for calculating a given country's GDP. (Women's housecleaning, laundering of clothes etc are examples of externalities).
For a woman who has devoted here entire or part of her life to the domestic sphere, is being compensated. she gets her own pension.
My two Eurocents worth,
Karin

University life experience for students is different in Italy than it is in the U.S.A. The first thing I noticed is the way students and faculty interact, and it is much different here in Italy. In Italy it is more formal, whereas in the U.S.A. there is much more interaction between instructors and students. Also women students are treated better and taken more seriously, I think, in the U.S.A. as compared to Italy. Students in the U.S.A. are not so reluctant to ask a question in class, whereas here in Italy, I saw students more reserved; I noticed this because I was lecturing. In the U.S.A. students are more self sufficient; many students have to work to support there studies and also mostly live away from their parents either in the University dormitories or in their own apartment; they are more independent and extroverted than their Italian counterparts in terms of having to survive on their own and to succeed in the life. In the U.S.A. there are more socializing opportunities at colleges and universities, for instance there is an abundance of extracurricular activities, like sports, and student organizatins on every subject you could imagine from bridge clubs and literature societies to golf and ski clubs. Things are much more relaxed in the U.S.A. Also, the colleges and universities are much larger in size, some of them almost like cities in themselves.

Night life.....It depends what you mean. I think for young people night life is good all over Italy. But for people who are in their forties for example, at least here in Milano, where I live, it is VERY boring. Of course, you have aperitivo from 7-9 in the early evenings. In Milano the aperitivo culture is fun and its blossoming, but when you go to some smaller towns, it gets really boring. Torino is a very nice place for aperitivo, but in the late evening it is a dead city. In Milano, beyond the aperitivo hour, for the forty-plus crowd, Milan, is very boring; restaurant culture shuts down by 10-11:00 pm. In Rome I always have a great time. In Rome people go out late to eat and enjoy the life.
In comparing the U.S.A with Italian night life.....well there is of course a lot to say about the U.S.A and this geographically dependent, too. I will just say a few brief things. New Orleans, sadly, is not the place it used to be, but when I lived there it was "going" all night long and so were the small cities directly on the Mississippi Coast. I was used to this culture and when I came to Italy, especially Rome, I had the similar feeling. But, then in the Mid-west U.S.A, it gets a bit boring. New York has great night life and, of course, many cities in California have much to boast about. I think that if you are in Italy and want to have a nice evening out, you must go to Rome. There is no place like Rome !

Wow, what a great subject.

But first, I need to preface this with a disclaimer: I fell in love with Italy when I was 7-years-old and saw pictures of Hadrian's Villa... the canals of Venice... David... the ruins of the Roman Forum... the Duomo of Florence... the villas of Tuscany... and the love affair has only gotten stronger with time.

So my first reaction is to say that Italy is simply the best place to live. Breaking it down into categories, though, is a great way to show that love sometimes overlooks realities. I'll touch on some of Paolo's categories here.

Both countries are indeed beautiful - the USA might have more variety simply because it is bigger and encompasses more possible landscapes.
Historical Landmarks - no question here, Italy is rich with history. The Romans (the Etruscans before them) - and indeed, all the people throughout history who have peopled what is now the Italian country - built and painted and created and designed and sculpted their world, allowing the millions of visitors and inhabitants through the ages a window into their lives. The USA has history, of course, but the oldest buildings are young in comparison, the art is fleeting, and the traces of anyone who lived here 2000 years ago is faint, if it exists at all.
Night Life: I'm not an expert here though I know that restaurants and clubs in Italy open later and stay open longer. Dinner can take a wonderful three hours, and at midnight the clubs are just getting started.
Culture: Depending on your definition, of course... does America have a culture? We talk about American culture, we think we know what it means... but is it cohesive? Does 'culture' in Louisiana mean the same as 'culture' in Los Angeles? Does 'culture' in New York mean anything close to what it might mean in Duluth? Short answer... Italy's culture seems (from an outsider's point of view) to be more cohesive, something one could actually identify... though the country itself hasn't been unified for very long.
If on the other hand what you mean by culture is some kind of way of life involving museum visits and music and great, masterful art and literature, and fine food and wine... then either place would probably have CULTURE... and Italy would seem to have a larger variety of cultural possibilities, and certainly more exposure simply because walking through any city in Italy is an experience filled with that kind of culture.
Sports: I was in Italy this summer (2006) during the World Cup Championship. I've never seen anything like the celebrations erupting around me every time Italy not only won but simply played a match. It is indeed a national sport, and we have nothing here that compares. One simple example: when Italy won the final, the entire city of Rome roared - literally. For hours. Venice exploded with sound and joy and the popping of corks. And in no corner of the country was the game not a subject of conversation for weeks. Even the Olympics doesn't garner that kind of support and interest from those of us here in the USA.
Women: I believe that the most beautiful women in the world are in Rome... but I have learned that what I find beautiful is not necessarily Roman/Italian women, but the variety from all over the globe. And, my apologies up front to American women (one of which I am), but Italians - and those visiting Italy - seem to take clothing much more seriously, they dress for their own pleasure, and they look great whether they're taking out the garbage or going out to dinner.
Men: I love Italian men. They are (yes, I am generalizing, shamelessly) handsome and charming and sort of languidly sensual. Not all, of course, and not all the time, but often enough for me to consider it a national identity trait. Biased... stereotyped... call it what you will. There's something about an Ialian man's approach to both life and love that I find quite intriguing.
Quality of life, which ties into the job market: I agree with Paolo. Quality of life could be great in either place, depending on you lifestyle and your finances. Getting a job is much more difficult in Italy, especially for a foreigner. So... if you're independently wealthy, living in Italy would be magic.
Where would I live? Italy for that very magic... Life in Italy is life lived sensuously. I would wander the streets of Venice and watch the shadows play in the dark water of the canals, and listen to the singing coming from windows ten feet above me... I would walk through the Roman Forum before 9 in the morning, imagining Cleopatra and Ceasar and Marc Antony walking beside me... I would listen for my footsteps echoing through the curved streets of Siena, waiting for a whisper of hoofbeats... and I would sit on the edge of Lake Como with a bottle of wine, a loaf of bread, and a dream.

The good and the bad equal out in each country, I think, and the choice comes down to what you love.

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Hello,

There are many people who really don't know what "culture" is. Let me define it in a way that most can understand.
Culture is "everything" a group /community of peoples or ethnic group "has, thinks, and does". Basically, the "have, think and do" refers to the language, social norms (secular or religious influenced usually), creating art and music, religion, dress, food preparation, social institutions, technology, and its cultural practices (e.g. medical treatment, agricultural practices, journalism, the media). America does have culture, but it would be more appropriate to say many cultures, and also as a "cultural melting pot". The U.S.A is not anymore unified in its "culture" than the Italian culture is. Italy does not have a unified cohesive culture. When some people say America has one culture, I think it is because they confuse and consider "liberalism" as some sort of branding of cultural identity. The way to define liberalism is that it is 'the' ideology of having no ideology. An ideology may or not be part of a culture's identity. The U.S.A. is a country of immigrants. Italy was never known to be a country of immigrants, but now that has changed. Some may even say that what has been described as Italy has always had histories of cultural influence from the outside. Back in the 900's there were the Morrocon invasions and cultural settlement in the South of Italy. (There is so much to write about the ethnohistory of Italy) But, when speaking of modern Italy, it is not a land of immigrants as the U.S.A. is. There are many ethnic groups in the U.S.A too, even communities having ther own dialects, take the Hispanic cultures for instance, who in various locations and cities across the U.S.A. adhere to their specific cultural identity via language (Spanish has a presence in the USA). Some U.S. states (back in the 1770 and 1800's) had numerous German-speaking, or Norwegian-speaking areas and the local cultures we have today in some midwestern states have evolved from those ethnic groups. I lived in Louisiana and what I can say is that they have various cultures, not one. In fact I learned just the other day that it was not white women , but African -Creole American women who were first 'women' allowed to own property in Louisiana in certain cultural areas (back in 1800's). Canada is a very good example of a country with pluralistic cultures. Each of these have their own 'local' history, dialects, arts, religions. I don't agree that Italian culture is more cohesive. Italy is NOT cohesive. I suggest reading Geoff Andrews book: Not a Normal Country: Italy after Berlusconi. Very interesting. If one knows anything at all about Italian culture, you will see that it is a country with many diverse cultures, each embracing their own way of life through food preparation, the local dialect, how they treat health/medical problems, agricultural practices, dress, and many other things. The official Italian language only was declared in the mid 20th century , 1940's I think (used the Tuscanese dialect as its model for high-Italian), before that time it was a land ruled by Nobles and each region had its dialects, and this was the situation all over Italy. Dialect diversity is still strong today. Italy has Aoasta (the Valdostaner culture), The South Tirol (Germanic culture language), Piemonte (Piemontese, French-Savoy influenced), Sardegna and ,then there are other areas, so many of them. One area that fascinates me is the south of Italy where there was a strong Greek influence, especially as it relates to medical culture (Hippocrates). To say that Italy is a unified culture would be an insult to the Italian diverse ways of life and the homeland it 'is' for millions of people in this country. And, we must also realize that not one culture is better than another one or 'is' the "one and only" Italian culture. Italy has many Italian cultures and each of these cultures 'thinks' it 'is' the Italian culture. Each and every one of the regional cultures dotting the landscape of this hilly, beautiful intriguing country 'is' Italian. Many times over the years since living here, I have heard many foreign people here refer to Tuscany as the 'real' Italy, this is not correct. Cultural identity is not so easy to talk about either, because it can tred on nationalistic thinking, it is sensitive.
Italy as a pasticcio of diverse "Italian" cultures?
ciao,
Karin
copyright (c) 2006 Karin Fester Scala

Hi Karin,

I actually agree with you about your thoughts about culture. In fact, my Master's degree was in Cultural Theory so I'm familiar with the pitfalls of talking about a concept this slippery.

What I was saying in my post is exactly what you said... that to speak of America or Italy -- or any other country -- as having ONE culture doesn't make much sense, exactly because so many different things -- EVERYTHING a group... has thinks and does -- go into making up a culture. To break down the concept, I used very simple definitions of what 'culture' might mean in the context of this Forum. I.e., culture as defined as 'art, theatre, classical music, etc. versus culture as defined by what makes up Italian or American culture. (See above for caveat here, about the slippery concept of culture.)

I think, without much debate, it is easy to say that American culture differs from Italian culture. But that in itself is an artificial dichotomy, and assumes cohesion where not much exists. That's fine... but it's also then almost impossible to talk about anything unless one decides to delineate concepts.

It is tempting to think of a culture as definable by language, maybe, or by a type of food. Not (necessarily) true. But it is also unrealistic to say that one can't say something like "Italian culture" and be understood.

I do know the history of Italy, and the fact that it wasn't a unified country until recently, and also that the languages from various parts of the country are different enough that it is quite difficult for some people in the north to understand some people in the south, and vice versa, and that the food is different from region to region. And so on.

However.
What I wanted to say here in the Forum was not that I thought Italy was all one culture, or that the USA was one culture (or that Louisiana was one culture... although, an argument could be made that the culture of Louisiana IS different than the culture of New York, just as American culture is different than Italian -- while allowing for the fact that there isn't truly a cohesive unit to talk about in either case), but that to speak of whether either is better is simply silly.

For the reasons you state, as well as for the fact that 'better' is itself an artificial and value-laden construct, and therefore varies from person to person or group to group, it is impossible to say whether one is better.

I was simply stating my feeling, my ideas, my concept that Italian 'culture,' from an outsider's point of view, seems somehow more interesting, more inclusive, than American culture. Precisely because of what you state -- that America is a nation of immigrants from its inception -- everyone therefore sees and lives in his/her own culture, seeing the others as somehow different. But I also know that this IS indeed an outsider's perception, and that it makes little sense to assume that because I've been to Italy a bunch of times that I understand all of Italian culture(s).

I would never dream of saying -- and did not in my post say -- that one part of Italy is best... that one type of food is better, that one type of art, or music, or landscape, or anything, is the 'real' Italy.

I agree with your points.
I was simply trying to talk about "Italian" culture in the spirit in which the Forum here seems to be looking at things: living in Italy IS fundamentally different than living in the USA, and to talk about either of those countries, and the differences therein, it is necessary to create and use maybe artificial boundaries and concepts and groups and categories. Acknowledging that is the key, but talking about differences between the two 'cultures' is important in this discussion as well.

So, having said all that, I think it's fair to say that there must be something in Italy that attracts people -- just as there is something in any other country that might attract people -- that is different than what people are used to, know, and live surrounded by every day. "Italian culture" while maybe not a 'real' thing, DOES exist on some level, because we can easily use that term and everyone who hears it understands that it means something different than "American culture." It is at that point perfectly reasonable to assume that each person who hears those words and/or says them, has a different image/concept in mind that goes with them. That doesn't invalidate the concept.

I think the key is keeping in mind exactly what you said... that no matter the country, culture varies from region to region, from person to person, from dinner table to dinner table. And yet, we need to be able to talk about countries other than our own -- and our own as well -- and understand that there are differences between them -- often significant ones. The cultures ARE different.

Otherwise, choosing to live in Siena or Moscow or Detroit or London or Havana would be easy because they all, essentially, would be the same. And they aren't.

Italy is what it is -- a pasticcio of cultures. So are most other countries. And each of those mixes is quite a bit different than most of the others. To be able to talk about them is essential, and to do this without reducing them to caricatures is the challenge.

Teresa

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Firstly I would like to say how can you compare the diffrences of Itlay and the USA? There are no comparisons..Culture to me a universal and depends on the indivduals upbringing and understanding and education, where we are from and opening up to other individuals way of life.It is all down to opinions and personal views.
I live in the uk with an Italian and we are hoping to move to his home of Venice in the future,
Once we save enough money as its very expensive to buy property with it being the most unique city in the world ' my opinion as of many others'
We go back as often as possible and the excitment of returning is over whelming, getting off the plane and his family meeting us at the airport, we jump in the boat and speed to Venice which you see in the horizon and the beauty fills my heart more and more. I immerse myself in the culture his family do not speak english so I am learning at school in the UK Ventian is a unique dialect and as you prob know it's different all over Italy which is the world over. I am from scotland and the east and west are so different. People for the north of scotland are even harder to understand.
His family treat me as part of their own and I feel loved. The Italians amaze me how close and caring they are with each other, lots of people in other countries could learn what it means to feel the passion of family.
We go the market and buy fresh fruit, veg, fish and meat I enjoy the hustle and chat of the ventiains at the market the air is full of chat and laughter.. a quick esspresso and home to prepare an exquisiet lunch.
In the evening Venice is mysterious and Enchanting, full of history you feel you have stepped back in time. i love how the Italians celebrate festivals with huge parties with outatanding fireworks and festivities all year. Making the uk very dull in that dept.
I travelled round the whole of Italy and it was the best trip ever from Largo Di Garda to Sciliy to see Mount Etna erupt.. what a memory.. I have travelled the world met amazing people from all walks of life in Asia and I can truly say Viva Italiana.. the best for me...

Firstly I would like to say how could you compare the differences of Italy and the USA? There are no comparisons..Culture to me a universal and depends on the individuals upbringing and understanding and education, where we are from and opening up to other individuals way of life. It is all down to opinions and personal views.
I live in the UK with an Italian and we are hoping to move to his home of Venice in the future,
Once we save enough money, as it’s very expensive to buy property with it being the most unique city in the world ‘my opinion as of many others'
We go back as often as possible and the excitement of returning is over whelming, getting off the plane and his family meeting us at the airport, we jump in the boat and speed to Venice which you see in the horizon and the beauty fills my heart more and more. I immerse myself in the culture his family do not speak English so I am learning at school in the UK Venetian is a unique dialect and as you prob know it's different all over Italy which is the world over. I am from Scotland and the east and west are so different. People for the north of Scotland are even harder to understand.
His family treats me as part of their own and I feel loved. The Italians amaze me how close and caring they are with each other, lots of people in other countries could learn what it means to feel the passion of family.
We go the market and buy fresh fruit, veg, fish and meat I enjoy the hustle and chat of the ventiains at the market the air is full of chat and laughter. A quick espresso and home to prepare an exquisite lunch.
In the evening Venice is mysterious and enchanting, full of history you feel you have stepped back in time. I love how the Italians celebrate festivals with huge parties with outstanding fireworks and festivities all year. Making the UK very dull in that dept.
I travelled round the whole of Italy and it was the best trip ever from Largo DI Garda to Scilly to see Mount Etna erupt. What a memory. I have travelled the world met amazing people from all walks of life in Asia and I can truly say Viva Italiana. The best for me...

Firstly I would like to say how could you compare the differences of Italy and the USA? There are no comparisons..Culture to me a universal and depends on the individuals upbringing and understanding and education, where we are from and opening up to other individuals way of life. It is all down to opinions and personal views.
I live in the UK with an Italian and we are hoping to move to his home of Venice in the future,
Once we save enough money, as it’s very expensive to buy property with it being the most unique city in the world ‘my opinion as of many others'
We go back as often as possible and the excitement of returning is over whelming, getting off the plane and his family meeting us at the airport, we jump in the boat and speed to Venice which you see in the horizon and the beauty fills my heart more and more. I immerse myself in the culture his family do not speak English so I am learning at school in the UK Venetian is a unique dialect and as you prob know it's different all over Italy which is the world over. I am from Scotland and the east and west are so different. People for the north of Scotland are even harder to understand.
His family treats me as part of their own and I feel loved. The Italians amaze me how close and caring they are with each other, lots of people in other countries could learn what it means to feel the passion of family.
We go the market and buy fresh fruit, veg, fish and meat I enjoy the hustle and chat of the ventiains at the market the air is full of chat and laughter. A quick espresso and home to prepare an exquisite lunch.
In the evening Venice is mysterious and enchanting, full of history you feel you have stepped back in time. I love how the Italians celebrate festivals with huge parties with outstanding fireworks and festivities all year. Making the UK very dull in that dept.
I travelled round the whole of Italy and it was the best trip ever from Largo DI Garda to Scilly to see Mount Etna erupt. What a memory. I have travelled the world met amazing people from all walks of life in Asia and I can truly say Viva Italiana. The best for me...
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