Owning guns: do Americans have the Right to do so? - Page 3 - Italian Online community

Micio · #21 04-24-2007, 05:09 AM

America is a free country, and it is now being taken advantage of, because of lack of respect for these precious liberties which come from our spiritual foundation which is presently being ripped to shreds by liberal thinkers and politicians.

The second amendment of our constitution provides for Citizens of the United States of America to bear arms.

The reason the young people were murdered at VA TECH were because the gunman new full well that no one there was going to be carrying a gun to fight back.

There are some things in life that cannot under any circumstances be controlled. Hindsight is better than foresight but in this case I think the laws should be changed to make it more difficult for anyone to buy a gun - but in no case should gun ownership be taken away completely.

I also read that the person who killed the people at VA TECH was autistic. It seems he wasn't cared enough by family and even though they owned a dry cleaning business, an article stated that they didn't have enough money to provide proper treatment for him. I read this in a paper from the UK.

this is my take.

bubbles · #22 12-07-2007, 02:08 AM

Just as we had said before, it is a matter of time that the next shootout takes place. So many people paid with their lives:their only fault was they were out Christmas shopping.

I wonder if it is a coincidence that such incidents happen more in the U.S. or does it have something to do with the right to bear arms, the status of the mental health of the country's youth or its system of foster and treatment homes?

stephaniealexis8 · #23 12-07-2007, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbles

I wonder if it is a coincidence that such incidents happen more in the U.S. or does it have something to do with the right to bear arms, the status of the mental health of the country's youth or its system of foster and treatment homes?

It's said there are no coincidences - especially in the U.S., which has long romanticized its Wild West past to the point of myth-making, where shoot-outs break out, especially during socially stressful times.

I do believe that easy access to guns and the prevalent mindset that uses violence in place of conflict-resolution, especially by a generation long weaned on computer games (some reportedly manufactured by the military!)and action movies that de-sensitizes the viewer, greatly contributed to this tragedy.

Our 2nd Amendment - "the right to bear arms" - is one of the most heated debates in American society. I for one do not believe we have the right to own and use guns unless under special circumstances (e.g. - our country's borders were under attack.)

paolo · #24 12-07-2007, 04:12 PM

I did some research - Unfortunately I did find only an old statistics ( But recently i read about the same number on a new article - )
This stats come from a health and Medical Information website

Gun Deaths - United States Tops The List
The United States leads the world's richest nations in gun deaths -- murders, suicides, and accidental deaths due to guns - according to a study published April 17, 1998 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in the International Journal of Epidemiology.

The U.S. was first at 14.24 gun deaths per 100,000 people. Two other countries in the Americas came next. Brazil was second with 12.95, followed by Mexico with 12.69.

Japan had the lowest rate, at 0.05 gun deaths per 100,000 (1 per 2 million people). The police in Japan actively raid homes of those suspected of having weapons.

The 36 countries in the study were the richest in the World Bank's 1994 World Development Report, having the highest GNP per capita income.

The United States accounted for 45 percent of the 88,649 gun deaths reported in the study, the first comprehensive international scrutiny of gun-related deaths.

The gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in 1994 by country were as follows:

U.S.A. 14.24
Brazil 12.95
Mexico 12.69
Estonia 12.26
Argentina 8.93
Northern Ireland 6.63
Finland 6.46
Switzerland 5.31
France 5.15
Canada 4.31
Norway 3.82
Austria 3.70
Portugal 3.20
Israel 2.91
Belgium 2.90
Australia 2.65
Slovenia 2.60
Italy 2.44
New Zealand 2.38
Denmark 2.09
Sweden 1.92
Kuwait 1.84
Greece 1.29
Germany 1.24
Hungary 1.11
Ireland 0.97
Spain 0.78
Netherlands 0.70
Scotland 0.54
England and Wales 0.41
Taiwan 0.37
Singapore 0.21
Mauritius 0.19
Hong Kong 0.14
South Korea 0.12
Japan 0.05

stephaniealexis8 · #25 01-02-2008, 08:32 PM

I was saddened to read this article from right here on Life In Italy. Will Italy start closing in on USA as a gun-centeric country?

"NEW YEAR HAVOC POINTS TO GUN CULTURE
(ANSA) - Rome, January 2 - Guns are catching up with
fireworks in Italy's love affair with blast-em-up New Year
festivities, Italian police say.
No one was killed by fireworks again this year - compared
to four in 2001. Burns and mutilations were about the same as
every year.
But firearm casualties were much higher.
A stray bullet zipped through a window and into the heart
of a 30-year-old Neapolitan man, killing him instantly. He
was survived by his wife and one-year-old son.
Also in Naples, a boy of Tunisian origin was hit by a
ricochet that lodged in his brain.
On Wednesday the boy, 10-year-old Karim, was still
fighting for his life after two operations.
In Sicily a middle-aged woman was in a critical condition
after a bullet went straight through her as she was watching
a street party from her balcony.
A couple near Turin were luckier when gunfire smashed
their living-room window but didn't hit them.
Five people were shot in Caserta near Naples, a woman in
Puglia was grazed by a bullet, and a 14-year-old girl in
Catania woke up with a gunshot pellet in her arm.
''There are too many firearms on the streets. In the
south, with the Mafia, anyone can get their hands on a gun,''
said Naples prosecutor Franco Roberti.
''It's a lot easier to procure firearms in other parts
too because of the relaxation of self-defence laws,'' added
National Anti-Mafia Commission chief Francesco Forgione.
''There's a new security culture, which is following
American logic''.
Karim's older brother told national TV: ''It was crazy
out there. You'd expect things like that in Iraq. I felt like
I was in Baghdad''.

photo: Naples widow

GEE
02-GEN-08 18:07 NNNN"

As a point of reference, there's a city in the southern tip of the NY County where I live where stories like these are commonplace.

Bonus question: Is there any correlation between the number of guns owned by the citizens of a given country, crimes committed with firearms and the macho/patriarchal element of said country?

bubbles · #26 01-03-2008, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephaniealexis8

I was saddened to read this article from right here on Life In Italy. Will Italy start closing in on USA as a gun-centeric country?

"NEW YEAR HAVOC POINTS TO GUN CULTURE
(ANSA) - Rome, January 2 - Guns are catching up with
fireworks in Italy's love affair with blast-em-up New Year
festivities, Italian police say.
No one was killed by fireworks again this year - compared
to four in 2001. Burns and mutilations were about the same as
every year.
But firearm casualties were much higher.
A stray bullet zipped through a window and into the heart
of a 30-year-old Neapolitan man, killing him instantly. He
was survived by his wife and one-year-old son.
Also in Naples, a boy of Tunisian origin was hit by a
ricochet that lodged in his brain..............

As a point of reference, there's a city in the southern tip of the NY County where I live where stories like these are commonplace.

Bonus question: Is there any correlation between the number of guns owned by the citizens of a given country, crimes committed with firearms and the macho/patriarchal element of said country?

The stories are indeed tragic, what ought to have been a celebration turned into mourning....many reasons can be argued for and against possessing guns, but the fact remains that it is the majority of the people who will suffer and the gun lobby that would benefit.Every time.

Guns are killing machines, not playthings or champagne bottles, so people need to understand that guns ought to be seen in context for what they are. Guns should be selectively licensed to those who are responsible and trained enough to wield them.

Markymark · #27 01-03-2008, 02:22 PM

A very worrying state of affairs. The UK started off the New Year badly too, with 5 murders on the 1st January - only one of which I think was firearm related. I agree with bubbles with regards to gun licensing, but most gun crime, in the UK at least, is commited by people using illegal weapons, so the licensing laws have little effect.

The article seems to indicate all the shootings were "accidental" (presumably the shots were for noise effect) - is this the case?

sardoman · #28 01-03-2008, 02:32 PM

The UK is, to my knowledge, the only country where the police do not routinely carry firearms in the execution of their duty. There are specialist units where the officers have guns, and until the London bombing of 7th July 2005, it was unusual to see a gun on the streets of London.
As a police officer I spent some time in unit where I carried a handgun on a daily basis. It was quite strange as I walked down the street to see the reaction of the general public. There was a double-take as people realized I had a gun, and then they would avoid me as they walked as far away from me as they could. The vast majority of people have only ever seen a gun on TV. And in the 10 years of having a gun I only ever drew it once.

The following is a quote from wikipedia, and makes interesting reading:

Quote:

In 2005/06 there were 766 offences initially recorded as homicide by the police in England and Wales (including the 52 victims of the 7 July 2005 London bombings), a rate of 1.4 per 100,000 of population. Only 50 (6.6%) were committed with firearms, one being with an air weapon. The homicide rate for London was 2.4 per 100,000 in the same year (1.7 when excluding the 7 July bombings). By comparison, 5.5 murders per 100,000 of population were reported by police in the United States in 2000, of which 70% involved the use of firearms (75% of which were illegally obtained). New York City, with a population size similar to London (over 8 million residents), reported 6.9 murders per 100,000 people in 2004.

The rise in UK gun crime is a long term trend that is apparently unaffected by the state of UK firearms legislation. Before the 1997 ban, handguns were only held by 0.1% of the population, and while the number of crimes involving firearms in England and Wales increased from 13,874 in 1998/99 to 24,070 in 2002/03, they remained relatively static at 24,094 in 2003/04, and have since fallen to 21,521 in 2005/06. The latter includes 3,275 crimes involving imitation firearms and 10,437 involving air weapons, compared to 566 and 8,665 respectively in 1998/99. Only those "firearms" positively identified as being imitations or air weapons (e.g. by being recovered by the police or by being fired) are classed as such, so the actual numbers are likely to be significantly higher. In 2005/06, 8,978 of the total of 21,521 firearms crimes (42%) were for criminal damage.

Since 1998, the number of people injured by firearms in England and Wales increased by 110%, from 2,378 in 1998/99 to 5,001 in 2005/06. "Injury" in this context means by the use of the gun as a blunt instrument or as a threat, or by being shot. In 2005/06, 87% of such injuries were defined as "slight," which includes the use of firearms as a threat only. The number of homicides committed with firearms has remained between a range of 46 and 97 for the past decade, standing at 50 in 2005/06 (a fall from 75 the previous year). Between 1998/99 and 2005/06, there have been only two fatal shootings of police officers in England and Wales. Over the same period there were 107 non-fatal shootings of police officers - an average of just 9.7 per year.

There are lots of people who carry guns in the course of their work in Italy, such as security guards. What concerns me is what kind of training they have had and what checks do they have once they have been given a gun.

sardoman · #29 01-03-2008, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markymark

The article seems to indicate all the shootings were "accidental" (presumably the shots were for noise effect) - is this the case?

The people were hit by "stray" bullets fired by people shooting randomly into the air.

Markymark · #30 01-03-2008, 02:48 PM

Thanks for both posts sardoman - it seems to me that guns in themselves are not the problem - it's whoever has their finger on the trigger, and, as you rightly point out, how well they are trained.

Same thing applies to cars - which kill far more innocent people everyday - but that doesn't seem to provoke the same response.

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