This has been a very interesting thread, and a lot of arguments put forward for responsible gun usage.

But the most important question(again, voiced earlier in this thread) is why are guns so easily available to students, why is it so easy to carry guns into schools, and who ultimately benefits from gun sales?

It is the arms-manufacturing organisations and gun traders that thrive when guns are made easily available to the the populace, and unlicensed guns make it an easier trade.

Stricter laws for gun control would be in place and properly enforced even in the U.S. A. only if the uber-rich, ultra-powerful gun lobby consisting of gun manufacturers and gun traders can be made to agree that free availability of guns leads to massacres of innocent people.

Gun bans have little or no effect on gun-related deaths in general (which is the gun lobby's strongest argument) because most gun deaths are gang fights and killings, and the mafia and the underworld has always worked with illegal weapons and possibly always will; they die fully knowing of the risks they had taken in their illegal careers.

A shopper at the mall could, on the other hand, be either you or me, totally innocent and unaware of risks. The shooter is equally hard to spot and predict. In such a situation making the possession of a gun a well-observed and controlled affair is not unreasonable.


If people want their freedoms to protect themselves, then they need also to be responsible enough to go through a proper screening process to do it so that unstable people do not gain access, and the number of firearms possessed can be regulated.

Most importantly: whether it is Italy, America, or any other country, the people who push for free availability of guns is not the commom populace, but the gun lobby posing as the common voice.All those people in the malls and schools died not because one man or one boy went mad, but because a very rich, very greedy few gave these individuals the means to become mass murderers.

Here is an interesting link that you may also look at, an excerpt from the book by a man who lost a loved one to such a massacre in Britain:

http://www.gun-control-network.org/A007.htm

Yes, that is how it is. The National Rifle Association has been pushing it for years. Big money talks and accomplishes what it wants.

Now to talk about something a little bit different. Then... here in Italy in the case of house burgleries,for example, the houseowner cannot protect themselves when they are agressed and robbed. However, the culprits have guns and they use them, do a robbery and run off. The police when you call them, never come. They don't even bother. So, for that reason it could be argued that a houseowner should have a gun to protect their home, just for the mere fact that they cannot depend on community police or neighborhood surveillance. If gun ownership is illegal, but crime still continues, then the safety of the community must be improved through having more police on duty and the police must respond to people's phone calls and help them. But here this is not the situation and everyone just says "well, there is nothing you can do about it" , shrugging their shoulders. And, I am so sick and tired of hearing that attitude. This is the big cultural difference between the USA and Italy in terms of how the community is treated and protected.

Wouldn't it be much better for everyone in a community if there was better security so that individuals would not have to think about carrying guns in the first place?

kfscala

Well, there we go....a 23-yr old weilds a gun and calmly mows down dozens of people.

And do the authorities know where the gun came from? No. The serial numbers have beeen erased....you can walk into a gun store in Virginia and buy a gun almost the same as you can buy candy.

In Virginia, people just need to prove their residence in America for a period, there is no waiting period before you can have the gun in your hands. And if you have a concealed weapon, the law actually supports you.

After so many massacres, the government will still remain immune to the tragedy other than paying tearful tributes. And the gun runners? Well, the lesser said about the gun runners, the better.

There is another gunman biding his time while we mourn the dead at Virginia Tech., all we have to do is wait

I think freedom is so important for everyone but my freedom finishes where someone else starts. So the law has to protect free people who want to go to public place from the madness of others. We are humans, we are not balanced all the time, sometimes we become crazy and if we have a gun we can think about that and we can make very big mistakes live in Virginia 2 days ago.
For me is understandable what happened overthere. The law cannot give the permission to take guns in the campus, and it must be more restrictive for young people.
The constitution was written in 1776 and many things are changed through the centuries, and also if at the beginning was very innovative I think now is a littel bit obsolete and it needs to be update.

If Americans are to own guns then there would have to be more controls. Control is difficult to define at times. Could the gunman in Virginia have been better controlled before it ever happened? I read some information about his background that I found quite disturbing. It was observed by some professor that he wrote violent text. Ouch. Is it right to put student writing under surveillance...that of course would violate free speech.....but in some cases perhaps it needs to be done if the writer might ever go off an try to act out his writing fantasies. That is a big IF.

I admit I still have mixed views on gun ownership. I can fully understand an indvidual in wanting to protect themselves from those who aggress them. If it was a matter of life and death it is only right that we want to defend ourselves. On the other hand I would never feel safe and free in a public space if I have to constantly worry that some irrational person who just might be in a bad, crazy mood that day, just maybe might want to shoot and blow-off everyone's head around them. Once that happens the freedom to feel safe and walk around unthreatened are suddenly violated and ruined.
We are scared and we feel so insecure.

kfscala

Ehi Kfscala! Where do you live? On the moon? If you are not update don’t say anything.
In Italy the parliament in 2006 added a new comma to the codice penale: « Nei casi previsti dall’articolo 614, primo e secondo comma, sussiste il rapporto di proporzione di cui al primo comma del presente articolo se taluno legittimamente presente in uno dei luoghi ivi indicati usa un’arma legittimamente detenuta o altro mezzo idoneo al fine di difendere: a) la propria o altrui incolumità; b) i beni propri o altrui, quando non vi è desistenza e vi è pericolo d’aggressione. La disposizione di cui al secondo comma si applica anche nel caso in cui il fatto sia avvenuto all’interno di ogni altro luogo ove venga esercitata un’attività commerciale, professionale o imprenditoriale». (art. 52 c.p.)
“The police when you call them, never come. They don't even bother.”, I think with you’re your own opinion you are offending many policemen and many people who work for the safety of Italians.
How can you say that? What happened to you? Maybe you were kidnap and hundreds of policemen looked at you while they took you away? Have you ever tried to call police and they didn’t show up? Are you sure you live in Italy.
Are you sure that American police treats and protect community better than in Italy (look what happened in Virginia). It’s unbelievable how people can judge without know everything.
I’m sorry if I was a little bit strong but before writing, please think that many people who don’t know our country can be scared about what you say.

Ciao

Joniosea,
I agree 100% with you.

In my opinion, people talk too much about what they don't like about Italy or problems in our country etc....
I don't think this is the real purpose of this forum.
Bad hospitals...not all of them are bad and things like this happen everywhere (just look at Walter Reed medical center).
Bad cops.... every country has good and bad cops...
And so on....
But food, arts etc....in Italy are unique, as they are unique in many other places.... so let's think positively and talk about good stuff.
Of course there have to be room for complaint, but you can't say, "Italy is like this..." just because you had a bad experience.
I hope nobody will take this personally even (probably) someone don't like any critics...but I can live with that.
Now...speaking of gun control, I'm Italian, and I live in the US, in Maryland since 2004. I'm happy that in Europe there are really strict rules about owning guns.
After what happened in Virginia just few days ago, how can people still defend the right to own guns???
This is unbelievable!
That guy was sick, was in a psychiatric center, was accused of stalking 2 girls; roommate, teachers and other student feared him, he had suicide tendency.... and he was able to buy 2 guns in a regular store!!!
Unfortunately the NRA is one of the most powerful lobbies in the US so probably nothing will change.
Just a quick look at some numbers: in UK in 2006 there where about 47 people killed by gunshot. The same year just New York City had more than 550 people killed the same way!
Take it easy

Gio

Prescription drugs could also be responsible for causing erratic shootings. There are documented cases of people who were on antidepressants and the drug made them very aggressive, resulting in killing people and themselves.

Kfscala, I agree with you on all these points, and feel that the answer lies in a degree of gun control. Yes, people should have guns, but they should first prove themselves capable of responsibly handling one. They should have to undergo rigorous tests, not just plonk down three ids, a credit card, and get a short background check.

There should be a proper psychological screening before such guns are allowed, or at least a check of the medical records/psychiatric records should be made mandatory before issuing a gun.

Secondly, we have to work for reducing the amount of violence portrayed in the media, and lionising the act of violence. It is difficult to do, I know, but unless we sit up and limit the watching of programmes with high content of violence, we will always end up with more situations like Vtech.


Thirdly, we need to be more aware of the community around us, both so that we can detect threats before they materialise and take action, and to bring a disturbed person to the attention of the authorities, who in turn, have to be more responsive.


So yes, Americans may retain the right to guns, but that cannot be a standalone feature of the nation, it has to be supported by various social regulatory measures.

Bubbles talked about the violence on the media. Yes, that is a strong contributing factor. How can it be controlled? The ones we have to hold accountable for violent scences in films are those who produce them.

Then, speaking of controls and the psychological factor. Did any of you in the audience read in the news articles about how the assailant was writing very graphic, horrible violent scenes? Apparently 70 students refused to participate in a playwriting class because of the violent nature of his writings.
I am a strong advocate of free speech, but when it inflicts pain and fear on someone, and the writer is repeatedly presenting pieces like this over and over again in class, as this one guy did, then one has to be sceptical about his psycholgical stability. The professor of the class complained to the department chair on behalf of the students and herself. The department chair in turn complained to the administration and the result was that no further action was taken. Can you believe it? I would like to know why it was not taken seriously? Could it be because the department head was a female, and if she had been male would they have taken it more seriously? It seems when women complain no one takes it seriously, but when a man opens his mouth people listen. It really makes me wonder how administrators rationalize sometimes. If someone had read the early warning signs maybe this tragedy could have been prevented. Is it possible that we as a society do not know how to read the warning signs? Or, that some of us do but others just don't listen?

kfscala