ANSA) - Rome, May 8 - The Italian Bishops Conference
(CEI) on Friday sharply criticised the government`s new
security bill, expressing particular concern over plan to
make it a crime to be an illegal immigrant.

I am a Roman catholic and I am proud to be...however I am sick and tired of the RCC telling the world that it is OK to be an illegal immigrant. What ever happened to having respect for the laws of a nation? Does anyone else agree with me on this one?

I agree for one. I don't understand why branding illegal immigrants "criminals" is wrong. Do something illegally, then you are commiting a criminal offence, therefore you are a criminal. Having spent many hours, euros and miles traveling to numerous different Italian government offices to ensure my residency here is legal, I have no time for the "clandestini" and think they should all be shipped back.

Ciao Mark. Since you live in Italy it would be interesting for all of us to hear from you about the current state
of immigrants in or around your town(you live in a small town so go to the next larger city) based on your observations
and interaction with them. For example in Perugia in 2007 I did a little informal research of my own and found out that
many immigrants were from Peru, Ecuador, Colombia, Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia and of course Albania, Romania and many of
the Northern African countries. When I talked to people(immigrants) they would give me a fountain of information including
the type of work they did,how they got to Italy, their relationships with Italian citizens, their life and activities in
Italy etc. etc. I plan on doing this in June when I'm in Vicenza. Also did this in France in 2004 and I'll be back in France again
before going to Italy this year.
Here in California I have worked with immigrants for many years teaching them English etc. etc.
So I guess it was just natural to interact with the immigrants in Italy. The immigrant story is
all so familiar whether it be in California, New York, Italy, France or wherever.

A proposito Mark, Hope to see you around June 22nd or so. Che ne dici?

Ciao Villa

Romanians top the list in our Comune, followed by Albanians, Ukrainians (a surprise to me), Moroccans and Senegalese. The British and Americans are way down the list (http://www.comune.rosignano.livorno...._straniera.pdf).

From my own experience (as an immigrant myself) the North Africans are fine - many are students selling goods on the beach ("Vu Compra" as they are knicknamed) usually very pleasant and not too pushy. The only Eastern Europeans I have encountered have been begging in the supermarket car parks claiming poverty and sick relatives who only seem to need their medicine on fine days - when it rains the "Vu Compra" are still there, now selling umbrellas, but the supposed homeless beggars are nowhere to be seen!

dura lex sed lex

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Italiani : esperti nell'arte dell' arrangiarsi

"Hard law, but law" ???? Apologies mine, nor my wife's Latin is up to scratch!

Giacomo,

I agree, in principle. Immigration is a legal act and must be accomplished in a manner consistent with the laws of the country in which one wishes to reside. Moving to a country illegally is not immigration, it is a violation of the law and an insult to those that legally reside there.

At the same time I can appreciate circumstances which might cause me to violate the prescribed procedures for immigration. For example, an event, natural or political, that places my family in immediate and certain danger of death by starvation or persecution. In those circumstances I could understand arriving unannounced on the shores of another country. But I would still expect to properly immigrate from that point.

Italy cleary provides for those circumstances. It seems unreasonable for another agency, whether it be the church or the United Nations, to argue that a country must accept all immigrants, regardless of circumstance, or to tolerate those who are in the country illegally. As Markymark says, they are, by definition, criminals because they have broken the laws of the country in which they are living.

Prior to the current proposal was illegal immigration a purely civil offense in Italy? In the US the first offense is still criminal, although it is a misdemeanor. Subsequent offenses are felonies.

harsh law, but it's law

latin was a very brief language

the problem is that it's not possible to control this immigrant flow because they arrive by sea on a boat from many north african state, especially from the Libia, so since they enter in italian waters they must be assisted
and there are vary criminal organizations that control this business.
This is a business because each immigrant pays up to 1000$ to make this travel

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Italiani : esperti nell'arte dell' arrangiarsi

Immigration is not a black and white issue. It is unfair that the Libyan government dumps boatloads of people on Italy's shores. However, those people have suffered many atrocities in order to arrive in Italy.

I do not have much compassion for all immigrants. I once dated an Albanian; he had a free scholarship to university, free meals and the Italian government would renew his permesso di sorgorno in return for him taking and passing his university exams on time. With all of those benefits, he still complained that Italy treated him like crap, would conducted himself with a rude sense of entitlement, and had no gratitude for the opportunity the Italian government gave him. In the end he lost his scholarship and his permesso because he did not take his exams, and instead of blaming himself he blamed the Italians all the while trying to deceptively entice me to marry him so that he could stay in Italy.

Going back to my lack of compassion, that experience with that person changed my views on Albanian men. But then I meet people from Ethiopia who sincerely come to Italy to make it a better place, which I cannot say that all the immigrants here aim to do. And it is ashame that the ungrateful ones ruin it for those who are escaping a torturous past or dictatorship government.

But in the end the Italian government needs to recognize the problem and end Libya's blackmailing of Africans who seek refuge in Italy. If anyone is unfamiliar with this, they should watch "Come Un Uomo Sulla Terra." It is a documentary that gives voices to those who suffered in order to reach the Italian shores, and focuses on Libya's illegal trafficking of people.

I would assume in those circumstances you would seek asylum - I have no problem with, and much sympathy for, asylum seekers who are not illegal immigrants - they are usually allowed temporary leave to stay until their case is heard.