In today's news from life in Italy I learned that a European Court of Human Rights wants to ban crucifixes in Italian Classrooms.

Personaly, I don't agree with the ruling and it bothers me when this happens in the USA as well.

I understand that everyone has different beliefs but I don't see why the crucifix should bother anyone. If you are not Catholic then you don't have to look at it or venerate it. Nobody is making you pray to Jesus. Why can't people just accept the fact that Italy is a Catholic Country and get over it?

If I went to a Muslim Country I would expect to hear the call to prayer in public. I surely wouldn't complain about that because I would be a foreigner to the land!

I am wondering what you all think about this.

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Well Giacomo, we needed a little controversy around here and now you're going to get it. LOLROTF! Grazie amico! LOL!

The presence of the crucifix in the classroom could easily be interpreted by pupils of all ages as a religious sign, and they could feel that they were being educated in a school environment bearing the stamp of a given religion.

Classroom crucifixes were made compulsory by two laws in the 1920s when Italy was a fascist state. The Catholic church and fascism seem to go together quite well.

Catholicism ceased to be the state religion in Italy in 1984. Italy should have freedom of reglion. After all the Catholic church has done much more harm than good. Just asked Gallileo and all those people burned at the stake.LOLROTF!

Poverty and hunger could be done away with if the Pope was to sell some of that weath in the Vatican. What the hell does Jesus have to do with the Vactican and the Pope living in all that weath.

Per amor del Dio it wasn't until 1992 that Pope John Paul II officially conceded that the Earth was not stationary - it revolved around the sun. I rest my case!

Not with standing there have been a few good Catholics like Saint Anthony and Saint Francis of Assisi. They actually tried to help the poor.

I agree with removing crucifixes, no religion should be imposed, and in Italy there's always been the feeling of a "State Religion". We are the Democratic Nation most close to a Theocracy. Those crucifixes mean you're supposed to be Catholic while growing up in Italy, and it's unacceptable.

That's the problem, Italy shouldn't be a Catholic Country, it should be a secular one. You can't compare with Muslim nations, there is Theocracy there.

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Italy is a Catholic country and it isn't. Nowhere in the world Catholicism has been taken as loosely as in Italy. Italy has 1,27 child per couple that means at least one of the rule is broken (to have sex to procreate ) - most of the people here eat meat on Friday etc so it is Catholic but very loosely. Actually when I went and talked to the Jewish people in the ghetto also the Italian Jews seem much more relaxed in their rules than America one for example ( Italian Jews work on Saturday just as an example ) . What I like about Italy is that so far all the religious rule have been taken loosely.

I am a firm believer that state and religion should be separated but this is apparently no possible in many Muslim countries so it might be better to take some things loosely and compromise on. I see the crucifix more as a tradition and heritage symbol and I am for it. Note that my son is not even baptized since I believe he will have to choose when he will grow up. Well it is difficult to explain but so far Italy has been quite open to religions and I am afraid that changes will bring more rigid rules instead. The future ( and the Muslim immigration to Italy ) will change - as a reaction - the country into a more strict one.

Wow, you guys do put an interesting spin on it and in a sense I can see your points. I see what you mean Zidanie when you say that Italy is not a theocracy while many muslim countries are.

But instead of simply demanding that the crucifix be removed from the schools, why not encourage people from all faiths and religions to display various types of images in addition to the crucifix? That way everyone can express their viewpoint while at the same time there will not be an over emphasis on one particular belief. There can be pictures of Buddah, Christ, Moses, the ten commandments, etc. The presence of these different images may make children ask questions about the various religions and then like Paolo says "They can make up their own minds."

While the presence of a crucifix may give children the idea that they are supposed to be Catholic, what message does it send when we ban it...that God should be hidden? That God is something to be ashamed of? While I don't believe that kids should be forced to belong to one particular religion, I also believe that they need to ponder and think about different religions.

Generally, I am not somebody who favors banning things. If we ban the crucifix, we would then have to ban (for the sake of justice) so many other things for many different reasons.

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Another thing to keep in mind is that the same concordat that ended Catholicism's status as the official religion also requires Italy to offer Catholic religious instruction in its schools (except for those children whose parents object). So, Italian classrooms are places of Catholic religious instruction.

I don't have strong feelings one way or the other on whether crucifixes should be allowed. I just wanted everyone to understand that while Italy does not have an official religion, there has not been a 100% clean brake between church and state.

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God has given you your country as cradle, and humanity as mother; you cannot rightly love your brethren of the cradle if you love not the common mother.
Giuseppe Mazzini

I think that students should take classes that teach about various world religions...not just Catholic.

Now, the human brain is a very amazing thing and everyone has one. Therefore, when somebody becomes an adult, he or she has the ability to accept or reject anything that they were taught as a child. Your own intellect and opinion will help you decide what is best for your life. I know that I do not accept as true and good everything that I was taught as a child.

Also, some may say that the state is forcing the Catholic Religion on the people by having it taught in classrooms. Well, it's better than having the state try to ban all religion completely like in some communist regimes.

The point I am trying to make is that it's just not a big deal if there is a religious presence in schools. When kids grow up they will make up their minds.

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[QUOTE=Giacomo;28313]I think that students should take classes that teach about various world religions...not just Catholic.

Giacomo, It's very ironic what you're saying. I taught 7th grade World History for 4 years and the book did exactly what you're saying teach a little about all the major reglions. Infatti reglion is the biggest part of World History. It doesn't matter if you believe in Christianity or not per esempio. What matters and is important is how Christianity and other reglions have shaped World history, society e cosi via. I was actually teaching religion in a public U.S. school but from a point of few of how religion has shaped our world. Some people even complained or thought it was a good thing that I was teaching Christianity. Actually I wasn't promoting Christianity at all but just teaching the history of it. Hai capito? The further irony of it all is when it comes to Christianity and reglion in general I think more or less like Zidanie5 who is if I'm not mistaken a complete atheist.

Exactly Villa. To hide religion from the students is to lie to them because religion has had such a major impact on the world in so many different ways. Kids need to be taught to think for themsleves and school is where they learn to do just that!

So Villa, are you in favor of removing them?

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I believe in complete and utter seperation of Church and state. There should be no reglion in school as far as trying to promote one reglion over another especially.

How would you like to have a Jehovah Witness for a teacher per esempio? LOL! By the way 2 of my students are Jehovah Witness and they spent 3 weeks in Italy this past summer going to a World Jehovah Witness conference in Rome. Seems Jehovah Witness are becoming quite numerous in Italy.
A proposito there is a lot of Jehovah Witness material, CD's, magazines e cosi via in Italian available e tutto gratis. Some of it is quite good for learning Italian. There is in fatti an Italian J.W. group that meets every Sat. about 45 minutes from where I live. They run the whole meeting in the Italian language with Italian material e cosi via. I plan on going there one of these days. Thinking like I do about reglion I have an open mind and will be going there just to be around other Italian speakers which are rare here in the U.S. If the Devil had an Italian meet up group I would probably go to that. LOLROTF!!