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  #21  
Old 11-06-2009, 05:42 PM
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Default Re: Crucifix

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Originally Posted by Giacomo View Post
Zidanie, how come you're not brainwashed? You went to school in Italy and even though you saw the crucifix in the classroom, you are an atheist and you have stated that most young Italians are atheists as well.
I've been told many times one way or another that many Italian nationals are less Catholic than most Italian Americans. It's very ironic ma vero. Forse in parte perche the Italian nationals have seen first hand the harm the Catholic church does. O qualcosa cosi.

Last edited by Villa; 11-06-2009 at 05:45 PM.
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  #22  
Old 11-06-2009, 06:31 PM
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Default Re: Crucifix

Right! So why bother to remove the crucifix? People will believe what they want to believe regardless.
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  #23  
Old 11-06-2009, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: Crucifix

Well I also have another point - There is a joke on the site in the humor section:

"A cruise ship captain has to convince the passengers of his sinking ship to jump overboard. He has to use a different approach with each European. He tells the English it would be unsporting of them not to jump. He tells the French it would be the smart thing to do. He tells the Germans that it is an order. And he tells the Italians that jumping overboard is forbidden!"

My point is that I grew up with a crucifix and I ended up not even baptizing my son , now if we start removing crucifix and tell Italian that crucifix are forbidden the reaction could lead unsuspected results.
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  #24  
Old 11-06-2009, 07:34 PM
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Default Re: Crucifix

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Well I also have another point - There is a joke on the site in the humor section:

"A cruise ship captain has to convince the passengers of his sinking ship to jump overboard. He has to use a different approach with each European. He tells the English it would be unsporting of them not to jump. He tells the French it would be the smart thing to do. He tells the Germans that it is an order. And he tells the Italians that jumping overboard is forbidden!"

My point is that I grew up with a crucifix and I ended up not even baptizing my son , now if we start removing crucifix and tell Italian that crucifix are forbidden the reaction could lead unsuspected results.
Molto divertente! Good point too! So take the crucifix away and they'll want it back e cosi via.
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  #25  
Old 11-07-2009, 02:48 PM
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Default Re: Crucifix

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Originally Posted by paolo View Post
Well I also have another point - There is a joke on the site in the humor section:

"A cruise ship captain has to convince the passengers of his sinking ship to jump overboard. He has to use a different approach with each European. He tells the English it would be unsporting of them not to jump. He tells the French it would be the smart thing to do. He tells the Germans that it is an order. And he tells the Italians that jumping overboard is forbidden!"

My point is that I grew up with a crucifix and I ended up not even baptizing my son , now if we start removing crucifix and tell Italian that crucifix are forbidden the reaction could lead unsuspected results.
Great point, and great joke, both so true!

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Originally Posted by Giacomo View Post
Right! So why bother to remove the crucifix? People will believe what they want to believe regardless.
That's true, I understand your points, but I can tell you that smart young people in Italy feel a need to rebel against a lot of things. There are many things here that are just a way to make you think like them, television, church, newspapers; all institutions are corrupted by years of proselitism, and that's their only reason to exist. So probably keeping the crucifix is indeed the best way to make it be seen as "istitutionalized", hence rotten.
Especially we young people here tend not to trust anything "official", as we've grown up feeling that kind of subtle (or not so subtle) conditioning and imposing that's so common in Italy.
On a side note, I think that our generation potentially could become smarter and less sheeplike than our parents', but the same things that could free our minds can also spoil them (i.e. Internet can provide unbiased news and free culture, but most of the time is spent in less useful ways).

Sorry if it's all very confused and messy, some of those concepts were hard to express in English, I hope the message gets through the layers of horrible grammar, structure and lexical choices
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Last edited by Zidanie5; 11-07-2009 at 02:50 PM.
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  #26  
Old 11-07-2009, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: Crucifix

No Zidanie, your English is good! So what you're saying is that young Italians are rebellious? The younger generation wants to see certain changes in Italy...maybe less traditional?
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  #27  
Old 11-07-2009, 04:25 PM
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Default Re: Crucifix

I know someone personally who has a crucifix on the wall above the bed and likes to refer to his/herself as a Christian, and is one of the biggest hyprocrites I know.
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  #28  
Old 11-07-2009, 05:18 PM
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Default Re: Crucifix

In a free society, I just don't see how we can justify banning a religious symbol. Everyone is entitiled to his or her own belief. I think that every school should have a room where students can go to pray...kind of lime a hospital chapel. In that room, there can be symbols from all different religions. Any student who wishes to add his or own symbol may do so. At least that way, God can still be present in the school but not in a way that is forceful.
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  #29  
Old 11-07-2009, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Crucifix

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Originally Posted by Giacomo View Post
In a free society, I just don't see how we can justify banning a religious symbol. Everyone is entitiled to his or her own belief. I think that every school should have a room where students can go to pray...kind of lime a hospital chapel. In that room, there can be symbols from all different religions. Any student who wishes to add his or own symbol may do so. At least that way, God can still be present in the school but not in a way that is forceful.
As a retired public school teacher these are my views on religion in public schools.
Every family has the inalienable right to educate their own children in the religion/denominations of their choice. Each of us was raised in a particular religion and hold differing views on the various questions that we all wonder about. It was not my job to indoctrinate anyone on beliefs about religion. That is the domain of the nuclear family.
Public funds need to be used to educate children in the broader subjects of science, mathematics, social studies, language and physical education. Religion can be divisive because of the differing viewpoints among and in the various religions. All christians, for example, do not agree on various aspects of christianity.
Mathematics, for instance, can be agreed on for the same answers the world over. Two and Two is always Four is an example. Religion, on the other hand, has many viewpoints and variables. There is no way that every religion can be given equal time nor should public funding be spent on separate rooms for that purpose. This is why the family of origin is the best place to explain to children the bigger questions of life, such as, the nature of God, man's place in the universe, and how we treat others, and what is considered to be the writings, rituals and duties of their chosen religion.
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  #30  
Old 11-07-2009, 06:40 PM
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Default Re: Crucifix

I have added a poll in the Off Topic Lounge to get a general idea of what the people on this forum think on this issue.
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