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  #11  
Old 11-05-2009, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: Crucifix

I wouldn't mind having a JW for a teacher. He or she has every right to express his or her views as long as it doesn't take up too much class time. I mean at a certain point getting off topic can be disruptive to the class.

I don't know......it just doesn't seem right to silence people on this topic or any topic really.
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Last edited by Giacomo; 11-06-2009 at 08:35 PM.
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  #12  
Old 11-05-2009, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: Crucifix

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Originally Posted by Giacomo View Post
In today's news from life in Italy I learned that a European Court of Human Rights wants to ban crucifixes in Italian Classrooms.

Personaly, I don't agree with the ruling and it bothers me when this happens in the USA as well.

I understand that everyone has different beliefs but I don't see why the crucifix should bother anyone. If you are not Catholic then you don't have to look at it or venerate it. Nobody is making you pray to Jesus. Why can't people just accept the fact that Italy is a Catholic Country and get over it?

If I went to a Muslim Country I would expect to hear the call to prayer in public. I surely wouldn't complain about that because I would be a foreigner to the land!

I am wondering what you all think about this.
If the majority of Italians supported the ban, then fine. But for Brussels to support a complaint from someone from Finland is P.C. gone mad. If you don't like the way Italy is, then a) Don't marry an Italian or b) Stay in your own country!
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  #13  
Old 11-05-2009, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: Crucifix

Makes perfect sense to me Markymark!
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  #14  
Old 11-05-2009, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: Crucifix

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Originally Posted by Zidanie5 View Post
I agree with removing crucifixes, no religion should be imposed, and in Italy there's always been the feeling of a "State Religion". We are the Democratic Nation most close to a Theocracy. Those crucifixes mean you're supposed to be Catholic while growing up in Italy, and it's unacceptable.


That's the problem, Italy shouldn't be a Catholic Country, it should be a secular one. You can't compare with Muslim nations, there is Theocracy there.
Best answer. This coming from an Italian living in Italy too.
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  #15  
Old 11-05-2009, 09:29 PM
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Default Re: Crucifix

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Originally Posted by Zidanie5 View Post
I agree with removing crucifixes, no religion should be imposed, and in Italy there's always been the feeling of a "State Religion". We are the Democratic Nation most close to a Theocracy. Those crucifixes mean you're supposed to be Catholic while growing up in Italy, and it's unacceptable.


That's the problem, Italy shouldn't be a Catholic Country, it should be a secular one. You can't compare with Muslim nations, there is Theocracy there.
OK, let's demolish il Duomo di Firenze e anche San Pietro a Roma - they are also symbols of Catholicism and no doubt are offensive to some! Where would it all end?
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:59 PM
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Default Re: Crucifix

The bottom line is that the Italian Constitution provides for freedom of religion, and the Government generally respects this right in practice.

The Catholic Church's influential role in society has led to controversy when church teachings have appeared to influence Catholic legislators on matters of public policy. Increasing immigration has led to some anti-immigrant sentiment; for the country's many Muslim immigrants, religion has served as an additional factor differentiating them from native-born citizens.

Italy has a total area of 116,347 square miles, and its population is approximately 57 million. An estimated 87 percent of native-born citizens are nominally Roman Catholics. Members of Jehovah's Witnesses form the second largest denomination among such citizens, numbering approximately 400,000 adherents. However, immigration--both legal and illegal--continues to add large groups of non-Christian residents, mainly Muslims from North Africa, South Asia, Albania, and the Middle East, who number an estimated 1 million. Buddhists include approximately 40,000 adherents of European origin and 20,000 of Asian origin.

Scientologists claim approximately 100,000 members, Waldensians approximately 30,000 members, and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) approximately 20,000 members. A Jewish community of approximately 30,000 persons maintains synagogues in 21 cities. Other significant religious communities include Orthodox churches, small Protestant groups, Japanese Buddhists, the Baha'i Faith, and South Asian Hindus
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  #17  
Old 11-06-2009, 01:49 PM
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Default Re: Crucifix

I am not Italian born nor do I live in Italy but this issue interests me because we have similar debates here in the USA.

I agree with Markymark and I believe that Paolo said something similar: It's a matter of tradition and heritage. Every country has symbols that give it an identity. I'm pretty sure anyway that the crucifix in every classroom has been a part of the Italian Traditon for years and should therefore be respected. It's not bothering anybody in the same way that having the ten commandments posted in the classrooms here in the USA didn't bother anybody either! For some reason however, our government here in the USA decided to ban the posting of the 10 Commandments in the classroom thus silencing the freedom of speech of those who believe in God and his laws.
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Last edited by Giacomo; 11-06-2009 at 02:15 PM.
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  #18  
Old 11-06-2009, 02:28 PM
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Default Re: Crucifix

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Originally Posted by Markymark View Post
OK, let's demolish il Duomo di Firenze e anche San Pietro a Roma - they are also symbols of Catholicism and no doubt are offensive to some! Where would it all end?
Mark I don't agree, those are monuments appreciable by anyone for their artistic value, a crucifix in a classroom has no other value than brainwash imho.
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  #19  
Old 11-06-2009, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: Crucifix

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Originally Posted by Zidanie5 View Post
Mark I don't agree, those are monuments appreciable by anyone for their artistic value, a crucifix in a classroom has no other value than brainwash imho.
Quite true, and if you, as an Italian, took your case to an Italian court and won then I would agree. But for a non-Italian (like me) to challenge things in their adopted country is wrong - I don't think Brussels (or Finland, or Britain for that matter) should decide a change to many years of heritage. Religion in the UK is now at an all time low, and the consequences can easily be seen - binge drinking, drugs etc. - do you really want Italy to follow the same route?
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  #20  
Old 11-06-2009, 02:47 PM
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Default Re: Crucifix

Zidanie, how come you're not brainwashed? You went to school in Italy and even though you saw the crucifix in the classroom, you are an atheist and you have stated that most young Italians are atheists as well.
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Last edited by Giacomo; 11-06-2009 at 04:48 PM.
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