I have come across many posts from people recording their own paths to dual citizenship, and thought I would add my own in a more point by point way.

My great grandfather was born in Siena Italy, and by the Italian rules, I qualify for citizenship also IF:

1. He never renounced his Italian citizenship by becoming a US citizen.
2. If he did do the above, he son (my grand father) must have been born PRIOR too that date.

If this is true (that my grand father was at least born prior to any renouncing), then technically my grand father, and my father are technically both Italian citizens, just not documented ones.

Therefore, I too am an Italian citizen.

Now I just need to prove all of this.

It is much easier to do this via the paternal side, since only recently (1948 i think) were maternal links to Italy even counted.

I started by doing a simple family tree, with help from family and from Ancestry.com.

Once I had the tree laid out, I then started contacting official agencies that hold documents I needed:

Starting from my “in” into Italy. I figured if I couldn’t get the hard documents, there was no point in trying to get the easy ones, like my own:

1. Birth, marriage, death cert’s for my great grand parentS. Yes…both paternal and maternal for everything, though the maternal side doesn’t really “count” in my case.

These would obviosly come from the town in Italy where they were born, wed and possibly died. You’ll need to find out where and who to contact on your own. For me, it was the commune(?) of Siena.

We sent a letter translated into Italian (via babelfish.com) and 15 EU’s since that is about what US agencies are charging for such documents. We also sent along return postage envelopes from the USPS. All of which were returned with a statement saying that they don’t charge for these requests. They also included all the documents we asked for.

Also, I need to prove that they (at worst) became US citizens AFTER they had my grand father. In my case I don’t think they ever were US citizens, but I still have to prove that.

Note…right now I am 57,404th on the list of cases at the US Citizenship and Immigration Services. No joke. They sent me a letter. I am the 57,404th case they will look at before sending me a letter saying they have no record to send me.

Also note, it is much easier to get documents if the person has been dead a longer time. Great grandparents doc’s from Italy were easier to get than those for grand parents out of NY. This is for obvious security reasons.

2. Birth, marriage, death cert’s for my grand parentS. Again, both paternal and maternal.

3. Birth, marriage, divorce, marriage certs for my dad and mom.

4. and finally my birth, marriage, divorce, marriage certs along with my wifes.

There was some question as to whether or not my father would first have to apply and become a dual citizen before I could, but I called the consolute and I am still unclear.

The NY Health and Mental services people (who hold my grand parents records) are kind’a weird.

We asked for birth and death cert’s and included a letter explaining why (they don’t reply to requests for proof of lineage or something so word your letter accordingly). Anyway, they sent the death certs, but said they wouldn’t release the birth certs unless we sent them the death cert’s of the people we wanted birth certs for.

So I guess we have to send back the death certs in order to get the birth certs or something. Still working on that.

I have now asked my father to start collecting his own documents since it is easier to request your own than for me to request them since he is still very much alive.

Since we have made such good progress, I will now start pulling in my own certs to add to the pile.

The Boston Consolute signore was very nice and was eager to get me to come talk to him, but without all the paper work there was no point.

However, once I get the last few piece’s, I look forward to my conversation with him.

I’ll keep appending this post as events unfold.

Hope someone finds this helpful.

Updates:
NY is still weird. In order to get birth cert's for my grand parents I need to send NY copies of their own NY death cert's that NY has! and not "copies".

First I had to order the death cert's, then I had to send BACK those death cert's (not copies) BACK to NY so they would know that my grandparents are dead.

Then and only then, after I've given back NY NY's own death cert, will they release their birth cert's.

Weird.

For what it's worth, I found out that by me applying, both my father and grand father automatically get "registered" as Italian citizens.

Here are some helpful websites:

http://www.italiandualcitizenship.com Nicola the owner and Lana his assistant have been extremely helpful, my Father in law had to get a statement of no record for his grandfather and Nicola seems to have the right connections with homeland security. I think he charges 50 euros for a consultation and 165 euros for helping obtain documents.

http://www.italylink.com/vitalrecords/vitalrecords.cgi This website has a better translation than babelfish for letters to Italy for documents.

FINALLY got back the last document from NY today regarding Italy…but it’s not good (not terrible yet though so don’t give up).

I sent them a crappy photocopy of the actual certificate that puts my great grandpa’s US citizenship in 1921.

A copy of the actual certificate. With #’s on it and everything.

Sent a letter to NY court asking for an official “copy” of it so we could read it and it would be valid, etc.

The NY website says if I don’t need them to research, the cert is free, or $10 I forget.

If they had to actually research from scratch, they charge $20.

Since I had the number of the cert (# is not clear…it is either 43434 or 42434) I only needed to send them $0 or $10.

I sent $20 just to be safe.

They sent it back saying that the #43434 isn’t valid and to verify it’s accuracy.

What the f? Either they didn’t look up 42434 or neither number is correct…but I sent them the cost for them to research the cert anyway!?!

So, as history shows, I will be sending back NY’s form with NY’s form to get NY’s form from NY to send to NY to get their damn form!

Plus $20.

Morons.

I was so excited too! I was in the truck heading to the consulate as I opened and read this letter!

So very disappointing.

Welcome to the world of Italian bureaucracy

__________________
CJ
Magical Marche &
Luchetti & Partners Studio Legale Tributario

What? The Italians were great! I got stuff from Siena in like 3 weeks.

It's NY that sucks!!

Aw yes, the Italian bureaucracy myth! Here's my experience with both the Italian and American agencies. I have ordered 6 documents from Italy, the longest round trip mail took 23 days. I ordered 4 birth certificates and 2 marriage certificates, with one of the birth certificates needing to be amended, that one took 23 days and they even sent me an Apostille. Now for the American agencies, FOIA takes 14 months for a naturalization certificate and we are only 3 months into the 14 months so forget that. Fortunetly I was able to track down the naturalization number and ordered it from the LA courts that only takes 6 weeks and $35 dollars. I ordered a birth certificate for my Mother in law, born in California who was adopted and since there is no budget in California and a skeleton crew, the office said it could take 6-8 months to get the certificate from Sacramento. Fortunetely the Italian consulate will accept a copy of the orginal certificate that is notorized. California Apostilles cost $20-$26 dollars but can be done the same day if you take them to the Sacramento office. Between my Father in law and myself we have spend near $500 for documents in the US and $12 dollars for the Italian documents. I will deal with Italy anytime! Even if I have to deal with the awful Italian bureaucracy system.

This is nothing and you have seen nothing yet.

Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate...

__________________
CJ
Magical Marche &
Luchetti & Partners Studio Legale Tributario

CJ, please educate us on Italian bureaucracy. I have had nothing but problems with getting documents from the US agencies, the process is terrible and it takes forever not to mention the cost. On the other hand, Italy has been quick, easy and cheap in comparison. I would like to know what I am faced with when dealing with Italian bureaucracy.

"Aw yes, the Italian bureaucracy myth! "

I think he was joking...