Somehow the song 'bella ciao' started a talk that ended up to the Italian campaign in Russia. It is almost impossible to image now that Italy send men to fight in Russia. Here is from wikipedia :


Le cifre ufficiali parlano di 26 115 morti, 43 166 feriti e 63 684 dispersi; i soldati impiegati al fronte sono stati circa 220 000. Ben poche furono le notizie fornite da parte sovietica circa la fine dei prigionieri italiani in Russia. L'unica certezza che, tra i morti in battaglia e i morti in prigionia, a guerra conclusa, nel 1946 l'Unione Sovietica consentì il rimpatrio di soli circa 10 000 prigionieri di guerra italiani. Si stima che circa 180 000 siano i militari italiani deceduti prigionieri dei russi. Gli ultimi 28 prigionieri italiani, tra cui il maggiore MOVM Alberto Massa Gallucci furono rilasciati nel 1954, a oltre undici anni dall'armistizio dell'8 settembre 1943.

The number above do not add up ( mathematically ) anyway it looks like somewhere around 100,000 to 200,000 where the Italian death in Russia during WWII thats Including 180.000 prisoners of whom only 10,000 came back to Italy. Well Stalin killed millions of his own so he surely did not feel much simpathy for Italian prisoners.

P, thanks for sharing. I had NO IDEA... and I studies the history of WWII in details (it was and probably still is mandatory part of Russian school curriculum).

I had no idea Italians fought along side Russians. I'm happy to hear that... and I'm shocked and sad to find out that many of those brave soldiers were imprisoned by Stalin... what a tragic and what a shame (on my country's former government).

Are there any other ways our two contries have crosspassed? I know Italian architects were popular in Russia during the Reneissans era and after (till practically 1917 - the revolution). Are there any other ways???

The Russian connection with Italian architects and especially stonemasons started with Ivan the Terrible (or maybe Ivan III? - it's been a while). There was even a section of old Moscow that was named for the Italian bricklayers.

The most recent connection I know of has to do with one of Russia's most popular saints: St. Nicolas, who is buried in the crypt in Bari's cathedral. In the early 20th Century, Tsar Nicholas II rebuilt the crypt for his namesake and today, by far the largest contigent of pilgrims to Bari are from Russia.

Southern Italy and Sicily also have an abstract connection to Russia since both societies were heavily influenced by the Byzantine Greeks. That is how the Greek name Dimitri (James) becomes Dmitri in Russia, but turns into my last name Demetri - in Sicily.

I am sure there are even more...

Justin

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Essex Shipbuilding Museum

Of course you had no idea! Italians fought along side with the German ! Italy tried to invade Russia with approximately 200,000 men. The Italian wikipedia is very confusing about the numbers however the campaign was a disaster and very few soldiers came back to Italy. Also Russian did not really follow the Geneva convention and of the 180,000 prisoners only 10,000 came back to Italy..... I read somwhere that Italian soldiers in Russia instead of yelling Viva il duce where yelling Abbasso il duce ...being pretty upset to be there.

In the movie Cinema Paradiso - the main character's dad was sent to the Russian front and never returned.

Italians simply never had the military tradition and strength that Mussolini faked for his own glory, and we were not ready for a campaign like Russia.
Paolo, I would be upset too, if a madman forced me to try and conquer a much stronger nation, let's not forget that Russia put also Napoleon on his knees.

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Wow, guys I had no idea that Italians tried to invade Russia. This part was never covered in the history of WWII that I studies. I'm really sorry for the Italian soldiers... I can only imagine how hard it must have been for them and their families. Those who were imprisoned lived in camps in Siberia where a climate is BRUTAL compare to that of Italy... How sad... how sad...

Thanks for sharing this historical fact.

I have some images myself but I would have to scan them and I am short on time.
I found many images and an introduction in Italian on this forum
La M.V.S.N. nella campagna di Russia - Unione Sovietica

Yes, exactly what I said. Lots of pictures of freezing Italian soldiers...

[QUOTE=paolo;25547]Somehow the song 'bella ciao' started a talk that ended up to the Italian campaign in Russia. It is almost impossible to image now that Italy send men to fight in Russia. Here is from wikipedia :

Was just reading something about this the other day.

Also don't forget that Mussolini sent some 60,000 Italian
soldiers to fight in Spain during the Spanish Civil War in
1939.

I'm over here in Italy right now and by chance was talking to
this 88 year old Italian man the other day. He fought in Greece
during the war. Said it was real comfortable for Mussolini to be sitting back in a chair at home while the Italian soldiers were out fighting.

Got over 3,000 pictures and will be home the 17th of July a proposito.