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  #11  
Old 11-03-2008, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Villa View Post
A very interesting question there, Twila.

A friend of mine was complaining about her Italian relatives not wanting to attend mass when they came to visit
her in the U.S. Made the comment about how Italian nationals are not as reglious as Italian Americans.
In theory 87.8% of Italians identify themselves as Roman Catholics however only 36.8% considered themselves
practising Catholics and only 30.8% said they attended church every Sunday.

(A proposito, I love it when Catholics ask me if I'm Christian or Catholic. Anyone who
follows Christ is a Christian which of course includes Catholics. The correct question
would be are you Protestant or Catholic.)

While Catholicism is by far the strongest Christian denomination in Italy, and the country has more cardinals than
any other country in the world, it is also home to a significant minority of other Christian denominations. The oldest
of the non-Catholic entities, the Waldensian Evangelical Church, forms a single church with Methodists and is a pre-Lutheran
Protestant community (which then adopted Calvinist theology, so that it can be considered the
Italian branch of Reformed churches), based in some valleys of Piedmont.

In the 20th Century, Jehovah's Witnesses, Pentecostalism, non-denominational Evangelicalism, and Mormonism were the fastest-growing
Protestant churches. Immigration from Western, Central, and Eastern Africa at the beginning of the 21st Century has increased the
size of Baptist, Anglican, Pentecostal and Evangelical communities in Italy, while immigration from Eastern Europe has produced
large Eastern Orthodox communities. Interestingly enough in 2007 I personally met in Perugia, Umbria, Italia a Greek Orthodox
priest from Greece that told me he had gotten permission from the Pope to start the first Greek Orthodox church in Italy.

In 2006, Protestants made up 2.1% of Italy's population, and members of Eastern Orthodox churches comprised 1.2%.

In answer to your question about Islam, while immigrants live largely apart from mainstream Italian society - doing manual or factory
work or scraping a living peddling trinkets or vegetables on the streets - the influx of foreigners in recent years, many
of them Muslim, is rapidly changing the cultural makeup of this Roman Catholic country.

Something else interesting is how St.Francis of Assisi's order is part of the Catholic church but yet different.
Runs parallel with the Catholic church ma e diverso. Seems the Pope of the time didn't much care for it but allowed
it to exist because it became so popular or so I was told by one of my teachers at the Universita di Perugia. I saw
this when I visited Assisi last year. There were these people dressed in robes that seem to be
all spaced out talking about love while all the time moving around spaced out. Something like out of the 60's in the San
Francisco hippy days. Then there were these really nice nuns I met that were helping retarded childern in a center they
run right there next to Francesco's church. They seemed to be very sincere and just different than you average
run of the mill Catholic nuns.

Protestants in Italy - TIME[OPEN_P]The Protestants are making headway among Italy's Roman Catholics. ...
Many converts have been made among gardeners in city parks and porters in ...
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...824822,00.html - 36k - Cached - Similar pages
My family is from a small town of 13,000 in the deep south of Italy and even there is now found an Assembly of God church and a Jehovah's Witness Kingdom Hall. That is a recent development.
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  #12  
Old 11-03-2008, 06:05 PM
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Default Would we have Christianity today if not forEmperor Constantine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zidanie5 View Post
Between young people there is almost no faith at all, I am an atheist myself, and all 20yo or so that I know don't believe in God, or they don't go to church anyways.
Catholicism survives mainly for old people, the others are too smart (JK)
If it weren't for the Roman Empire's adoption of Christianity we would not be Christians today.

Zidanie5, Do you think Christianity would be so popular today in the world if it weren't for the Roman emperors Constantine and Theodosius I?(and the Roman Empire in general)
Constantine of course was the first Christian Roman emperor and promoted Christianity throughout the vast Roman Empire. He gave the Roman Empire
freedom of reglion but did not actually make Christianity the oficial reglion. It was actually the Roman Emperor Theodosius I that made Christianity
the oficial reglion of the Roman Empire. Constantine also made law that Jesus was not only the son of God but God himself. He also said there was a
Holy Spirit in there some place too. Never could understand how Jesus can be the son of God and God himself and then this Holy Spirit character too.
(See The Council of Nicea) Was taught all this nonsense from a very early age. I think the 10 Commandments are great. I believe in love and fairness
in the world, I'm against torture, rape, murder, and war but this other stuff is pretty hard to swallow. Can even believe or try to believe that Jesus
was the son of God, but God and the son at the sametime. Please! Give me a break! How could Jesus talk and pray to himself?! Think about it.
Use some common sence people. It's amazing that how we think, whorship and behave today comes from the Roman Empire. And to think it all comes from Italy.
Italy is amazing!

The Christian Empire: 313-476

Christianity Becomes Dominant
The status of Christianity changed considerably in the fourth century because of one person, Emperor Constantine the Great,
who officially permitted and promoted Christianity in the Roman Empire. The emperors who followed Constantine I continued his
legacy; they were all Christian except one. A little later in the century, Theodosius I (379-395) required that all of his
subjects be Christian. Now the former "persecuted church" was in danger of becoming a worldly and "oppressing church." And it did.

Last edited by Villa; 11-03-2008 at 07:03 PM.
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  #13  
Old 11-03-2008, 07:02 PM
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[ I believe in love and fairness
in the world, I'm against torture, rape, murder, and war but this other stuff is pretty hard to swallow. Can even believe or try to believe that Jesus
was the son of God, but God and the son at the sametime. Please! Give me a break! How could Jesus talk and pray to himself?! Think about it. Use some common sence people.

Villa, do you really want to open this thread to debate on if there is a GOD and the Holy Trinity?? I don't think we need to open that can of worms. If you want to , BRING it ON!
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  #14  
Old 11-03-2008, 07:08 PM
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Why not? We have Zidanie5 who doesn't believe in God at all. I'm more of an agnostic but at the sametime I think Zidanie5 is closer to the truth.

The point is we are only Christians because of the Roman Empire's spread of it. Roman Empire=Spread of Christianity. The Roman Empire is the
only reason you believe in the Holy Trinity today regardless of rather you believe it or not. Back in the day Constatine sent a few of his boys
to Isreal to check out this character Jesus' life and legend.They reported back that there were 2 schools of thought. One that Jesus was just
the son of God and the other that Jesus was God himself.(By the way, they could not find out what month or date Jesus was born in or died in.
That was all made up later.) Constatine decided he liked the idea of Jesus being the the son and God himself. If he would have decided
differently you would think differently.
Just think that it's important that we know where this stuff all really comes from and who really promoted it and made it all happen.

By the way, I do believe in some kind of after life. At least I'm hoping there is some kind of after life.

Last edited by Villa; 11-03-2008 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 11-03-2008, 07:10 PM
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The people who wrote the bible also thought the world was flat and that the Sun revolved around the Earth.
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  #16  
Old 11-03-2008, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Villa View Post
Why not? We got Zidanie5 who doesn't believe in God at all. I'm more of an agnostic but at the sametime I think Zidanie5 is closer to the truth.

The point is we are only Christians because of the Roman Empire's spread of it. Roman Empire=Spread of Christianity.
I am a Christian because of Christ, you my friend said you weren't a Christian. I will pray for you.
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Old 11-03-2008, 07:37 PM
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The people who wrote the bible also thought the world was flat and that the Sun revolved around the Earth.
Good one Mike!

Also the Bible was not written until some 300 years after Jesus died.(New Testament) It was only spread by word from generation to generation. Did you ever
play that game where you whisper around in a circle and then at the end what was really said is all changed around or completly different?

Last edited by Villa; 11-03-2008 at 07:52 PM.
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  #18  
Old 11-03-2008, 07:42 PM
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I am a Christian because of Christ, you my friend said you weren't a Christian. I will pray for you.
Do you think Zidanie5 and Villa are going to hell?

My brother-in-law says Hitler could go to heaven if he
accepted Jesus. That would mean that all the Jews that Hitler
killed and tortured would be in hell why Hitler is in heaven. Does that make sence to you Danno or anybody?

Last edited by Villa; 11-03-2008 at 07:51 PM.
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  #19  
Old 11-03-2008, 08:25 PM
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I was flippant in my comment, but I respect peoples opinions and choices.

I believe in something bigger than all of us (Shakspeare said it best: "There are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in our philosophy") but I see no need to personify what ever it is into a white, old, bearded grandfather figure looking down on us.

Everything that 99% of the people know about religion is written by men, and everything, EVERYTHING man does is flawed.

Therefor, religion is flawed.

Also, most of what people think of as the "devil", comes primarily from Miltons "Paradise Lost", and not any workings of the bible.

It is the man made rules (can't eat hotdogs on Fridays) that people hold to as gospel that drive a wedge between the faiths.

My father (my real father, not a priest father) said that you cannot put God in a box. We cannot define God in our terms. God is bigger than that.

In the end, keep faith in your heart and have a relationship with your God(s) as you will, but let God(s) handle his relationship with everyone else...I think (s)he can handle it.
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Old 11-03-2008, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Villa View Post
Do you think Zidanie5 and Villa are going to hell?

My brother-in-law says Hitler could go to heaven if he
accepted Jesus. That would mean that all the Jews that Hitler
killed and tortured would be in hell why Hitler is in heaven. Does that make sence to you Danno or anybody?
You betcha! But you still have a chance, you can be saved. And , yes, even Hitler can be saved in the end, that's the great thing about being saved!
You may not like it now but it won't make a difference when you're dead. Everyone will have that chance in the end. Hitler may not choose Christ, what about you?
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