
05-29-2008, 03:03 PM
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Queste sono alcune risposte che hanno dato alla mia domanda alcuni italiani...la domanda era: "L'america è parte della nostra vita...USA e ITALIA sono amici?? IN CHE MODO SECONDO VOI..?"
1-l'America non è amica di nessuno...tutto quello che fanno è nel loro interesse...
partecipare a guerra, iniziare guerre, dare aiuti, negare aiuti...niente è per beneficenza e dietro ogni gesto c'è un interesse politico e di "colonizzazione" diplomatica!
2-E' innegabile che gli USA hanno rappresentato un modello a cui ambire per tutti i Paesi liberi, come l'Italia. Ciò è dovuto per l'eco della guerra fredda, che aveva involontariamente (..o no..?) incoronato gli Stati Uniti a patria delle libertà, a garante della tutela delle volontà individuali di tutti senza differenze.
Col tempo però, il numero di persone critiche nei confronti dell'America ha fatto sentire la sua voce, facilitate dal fatto che per gli states non c'era più alcuna nemesi a cui contrapporsi. Probabilmente guerre non del tutto spiegate ai media o non giustificate di fronte a politici di altri Paesi, fatti di cronaca come il pestaggio gratuto di cittadini inermi solo perchè neri da parte della polizia.... insomma tutto ciò ha contributio dal 1990 a oggi a "smontare" il mito americano. Oggi infatti è difficile dire cosa siano gli USA per un cittadino europeo o un abitante di un Paese democratico. Diciamo che l'idillo è finito, ora si guarda in faccia la realtà e si vede che di "paladini" delle libertà non ce ne sono più: ognuno ha i suoi scheletri negli armadi.
Oggigiorno si vive un'epoca di transizione, dove il mondo va verso nuovi equilibri geopolitici. Tale periodo è segnato dal fondamentalismo islamico e dalla crisi delle risorse energetiche e materie prime. Una volta che finirà quest'epoca, speriamo con la sconfitta di Al Qaeda e con la riapacificazione in Medio Oriente, probabilmente il mondo avrà ancora bisogno di un "modello americano". Ovviamente non necessariamente dovrebbero essere di nuovo gli Stati Uniti a diventare i paladini della libertà e del garantismo. Magari saremo noi europei nella UE ad erigerci come leader. Oppure potrebbero essere i cinesi, che in un futuro, quando finiranno di espandersi così rapidamente, potrebbero trasformarsi in una nazione democratica.
L'Italia in tutto questo fa la parte che fanno tutti i Paesi occidentali. Ovvero se nel passato erano fratelli, o per meglio dire "figli" degli USA, oggi stanno iniziando ad agire senza "chiedere il permesso" a "papà". Ovviamente fatti come il terrorismo islamico hanno ricompattato l'occidente intorno all'America, ma è innegabile come l'Europa non accetti più il ruolo di sublaternità agli americani. Ripeto, bisognerà attendere la fine di Al Qaeda e la cessazione di questa corsa ai rincari per capire cosa sarà in futuro l'America per l'Italia. In quest'epoca di transizione gli USA hanno ancora un ruolo di guida, di "paladini" delle libertà, ma solo da un punto di vista "nominale" e storico. Perchè c'è la consapevolezza che pure loro hanno difetti e "scheletri" da nascondere, e anche perchè la sensazione è che il futuro possa guardare altrove.
3-ma sei veramente convinto che l'america sia amica nostra??? a noi conviene altrimenti essendo più forti ci annienterebbero. l'america non è amica di nessuno!!!!pensa solo alle sue convenienze
4-io non ne posso più di questi extracomunitari arroganti che vogliono comandare in italia!!
pensa che ci sono zone del territorio italiano che ormai sono sotto il loro controllo, comandano loro, e nemmeno la polizia o l'esercito ci può entrare!
ci sono poi casi di quelli che vanno in giro a stuprare o uccidere o compiere altri crimini, e poi restano impuniti!
naturalmente non sono tutti così, io sto parlando degli extracomunitari AMERICANI, che hanno le basi in italia e sottraggono i loro militari alla giustizia italiana (anche se colpevoli di stupro, omicidio o stragi come il cermis) per rispedirli negli usa dove se la cavano con niente o con un buffetto sulla guancia.
gli altri extracomunitari invece no, non hanno di questi privilegi, anzi vengono criminalizzati per qualsiasi reato compia uno straniero, anche se sono completamente estranei al fatto, per opera di persone insicure e di scarso intelletto che ascoltano la propaganda di partiti che hanno convenienza a fomentare la paura del diverso, e che per questo non combatteranno mai l'immigrazione se non con la virulenza delle parole, visto che garantisce loro l'elezione.
che pensate cari statunitensi?!?!??!??!! These are some answers they gave to my question some Italians ... the question was: "America is part of our lives ... USA and Italy are friends? HOW THE SECOND YOU ..?"
1-l'America is no friend of anyone ... all what they are doing is in their interest ...
participate in war, start wars, give aid, to deny aid ... nothing is for charity and behind every gesture there is a political interest and "colonization" diplomatic!
2-E 'undeniable that the U.S. has been a model to aspire to all free countries, like Italy. This is due to the echo of the Cold War, which had inadvertently (or not .. ..?) Crowned the United States to the homeland of freedom, the guarantor of protection of individual desire of all without distinction.
Over time, however, the number of persons critical towards did hear his voice, facilitated by the fact that for the states there was no nemesis who oppose. Probably wars not fully explained to the media or not justified in the face of politicians from other countries, made news as the beating gratuto of defenceless citizens just because blacks by police .... in short, everything has contributio from 1990 to today to "dismantle" the American myth. Today it is difficult to say what are the U.S. for a European citizen or a resident of a democratic country. We say that the idillo is finished, now we look reality in the face and sees that "champions" of freedom there are more: each has its skeletons in closets.
Today we live an era of transition, where the world is heading toward new geopolitical balance. This period is marked by Islamic fundamentalism and the crisis of energy resources and raw materials. Once this period ends, hopefully with the defeat of Al Qaeda and the riapacificazione in the Middle East, probably the world will still need an "American model". Obviously not necessarily should be back on the U.S. to become the champions of freedom and garantismo. Maybe we we Europeans in the EU to erigerci as a leader. Or could be the Chinese, that in a future when it will end up expanding so quickly, could turn into a democratic nation.
Italy in all this is the part that makes all Western countries. Or if in the past were brothers, or rather "children" of the U.S. today are beginning to act without "asking permission" to "dad". Obviously facts such as Islamic terrorism have ricompattato around the West to America, but it is undeniable as Europe not accept more sublaternità the role of the Americans. I repeat, must wait until the end of Al Qaeda and the termination of this race for price increases to understand what the future will be in America for Italy. In this age of transition the U.S. still have a leading role, "champions" of freedom, but only from a point of view "nominal" and historic. Why is the awareness that they also have flaws and "skeletons" to hide, and also because the feeling is that the future might look elsewhere.
3-but you really convinced that America is our friend? we agree otherwise being stronger annienterebbero us. America is no friend of nobody! thinks only of its conveniences
4-I can not more of these non-arrogant who want to command in Italy!
thinks that there are areas of Italy that are now under their control, their command, nor the police or the army may join us!
There are also cases of those who go around rape or kill or make other crimes, and then remain unpunished!
of course are not all so, I am speaking of non-AMERICAN, which have their bases in Italy and steal their military to justice Italian (even if guilty of rape, murder or massacres like the cermis) for use in rispedirli where if derive with nothing or a flip on the cheek.
other non But no, do not have these privileges, but are criminalized for any offence to complete a foreigner, even if they are completely unrelated to the fact, through the work of people insecure and low intellect who hear the propaganda of parties that have convenience to foment the fear of different, and that this will not ever fight immigration if not with the virulence of words, given that guarantees them the election.
you think dear U.S. ?!?!??!??!! | 
05-29-2008, 04:28 PM
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| | America is good bur certainly not perfect!
I am American with Italian ancestry. America in many ways is a great nation. How else could we have become so prosperous? We have helped out many countries in time of need and disaster and we allow people to come here and share in our wealth.
BUT we have MANY MANY problems here in America. Many are killing themselves with fast food and are obsessed with money and being rich. Many people here think that America is the only nation on this planet that is worth anything. They think that everyone should speak english. This thinking is ridiculous and as an American I am tired of being exposed to it!!!!
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05-29-2008, 04:59 PM
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Ciao, Giacomo. I see you're from Rhode Island. I've lived in Providence most of my adult life before moving to Florida six years ago.
I miss the Italian restaurants up there, particularly Caserta Pizza on Federal Hill.
As for hating America. I grew up in the province of Caserta and we used to idolize everything American. The tall buildings, American movies, the wide open spaces of the west, the ideals of freedom and democracy.
I believe things started changing during the Vietnam war when people began viewing the USA not as liberators but as aggressors. Today, many wars since, America is seen as a bully, a country that loves war and doesn't hesitate to attack any nation. We had international support in Afghanistan but squandered that good will with our invasion and occupation of a smaller, weaker country, Iraq, that really posed no threat to us.
Many smaller nations fear that if it happened to the Iraqis, some day it might happen to them..if they manage to somehow anger America.
In my visits to Italy I find no animosity towards Americans per se but am often questioned about U.S. foreign policy. Bush has really done a lot of damage to our image around the world and I hope the next president works hard to restore it and stop the posturing and threatening ways of these last few years.
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05-29-2008, 05:42 PM
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Pardon me, Rambo but it seems you hate everything. You hate the mezzogiorno, you hate the government of Italy, you hate the government of Stati Uniti, you hate americani, you hate people who are not the same nationality as you are, you just seem to hate. Life must be very sad for you.
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05-29-2008, 06:31 PM
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| | We are not perfect
America is NOT perfect. Yes, I am proud to be American because America is in many ways a great nation. We have toppled dictators, we have helped victims of disasters, we have allowed people from all over the world to share in our prosperity.
However we have many issues here to deal with. Our fast paced fast food culture has caused stress, obesity, and ill health. Many seem to be obsessed with money to the extent that I only get 20 minutes for lunch in the afternoon! After all, time is money!! Worst of all there are some in this country who think that there is no country better than America and that everyone should just speak english all over the world.
Yes I am an American and I am proud. However, I wish to be in close touch with my Italian roots because they are so rich and colorful!
To Americans: our nation is a great one in may ways but thereis more to life than McDoanld's and apple pie!!
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05-29-2008, 07:19 PM
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| | Maybe don't everyone knows that the ITALIA had a monopoly ... Quote:
Originally Posted by Giacomo I am American with Italian ancestry. America in many ways is a great nation. How else could we have become so prosperous? We have helped out many countries in time of need and disaster and we allow people to come here and share in our wealth.
BUT we have MANY MANY problems here in America. Many are killing themselves with fast food and are obsessed with money and being rich. Many people here think that America is the only nation on this planet that is worth anything. They think that everyone should speak english. This thinking is ridiculous and as an American I am tired of being exposed to it!!!! | Quando l'america ci ha aiutato, ha voluto in cambio la possibilità di comandare anche nel nostro paese!!!
Lo sai che negli anni 60 noi italiani con l'ENI (ente nazionale idrocarburi), potevamo avere quasi il monopolio del petrolio?? Con il capo dell''ENI, Enrico Mattei, stavamo facendo contratti importantissimi..la cosa dava molto fastidio alle "Sette Sorelle" americane, che oltre ad essere monopoliste del petrolio, erano anche parte stessa del governo americano... Quindi non tutti sanno in italia che noi saremmo potuti diventare un paese ricco, ma molto ricco..Il capo del KGB russo ci aveva avvertito che gli Stati Uniti progettavano di uccidere Mattei..perchè Mattei stava facendo contratti importanti nel Medio Oriente con la Persia, Algeria, Libia...ciò contrastava con la politica economica americana, e dunque l'Italia ha perso... Lo sapete che lo ha ucciso poi? Un pentito della mafia, Tommaso Buscetta, ha rivelato che è stato un regalo da parte della mafia, ad amici stranieri: gli amici dell'USA.. Gli amici degli USA con la CIA (che era in europa per rompere le palle ai russi)...quindi thanks america! siete voi i più forti ora che ci avete rubato i nostri contratti
When America has helped us, wanted in exchange for the possibility of control in our country!
You know that in 60 years we Italians with ENI (national utility hydrocarbons), we could have almost a monopoly of oil? With the head dell''ENI, Enrico Mattei, were doing important contracts .. it was very bothersome to the "Seven Sisters" American, which besides being monopoliste oil, were also part of the U.S. government ... So not everybody knows that in Italy we would be able to become a rich country, but very rich .. The head of the Russian KGB had warned us that the United States to kill progettavano Mattei .. because Mattei was doing important contracts in the Middle East with Persia , Algeria, Libya ... This contrasted with the American economic policy, and therefore Italy has lost ... Do you know who killed then? A repentant of the Mafia, Tommaso Buscetta, has revealed that it was a gift from the mafia, for foreign friends: friends dell'USA .. The friends of the USA with the CIA (which was in Europe for breaking balls to the Russians) ... then thanks america! you are the strongest now that you have stolen our contracts
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05-29-2008, 07:28 PM
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RAMBO... I am sorry... thanks to make so many effort to discuss about topics so interesting but please...
Italians don't hate americans, is not true, I am italian 100%...
Maybe someone don't like them, maybe someone don't like American system... that's fine.. but say we don't like americans it's an offense to them and to people like me.
Because I don't like maybe or I disagree BUT I DON'T HATE ANYONE!!!
And if we are talking about americans who lead our plitics, it might be true... but it's not theyer fault if we have a shit system...
and I am sorry again but we exportet the MAFIA worldwide!!!!!
Ciao
Last edited by Guido Gangi; 05-29-2008 at 07:45 PM.
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05-29-2008, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Evans Pardon me, Rambo but it seems you hate everything. You hate the mezzogiorno, you hate the government of Italy, you hate the government of Stati Uniti, you hate americani, you hate people who are not the same nationality as you are, you just seem to hate. Life must be very sad for you. | Tu credi che io odio gli USA?????? Ma se ogni volta difendo gli USA quando sono con tutti quelli che in Italia la odiano... forse traduco troppo male dall'italiano all'inglese...dunque non mi capisci...Già il mio nickname Rambo cosa ti dice?? Non ti ricordi che Rambo è un militare americano!??!? Dunque amo l'America, e le americane  ...
Comunque è vero, qui in Italia tutti odiano il governo..quasi tutti odiano gli immigrati...quasi tutti odiano la politica estera americana... Scusa ma io ho fatto un thread con scritto quello che pensano altri italiani alla domanda: "L'america è parte della nostra vita...USA e ITALIA sono amici?? IN CHE MODO SECONDO VOI..?".... le risposte degli italiani non sono mie, chiaro? Ora rispondi se hai capito per favore, sennò passo per scemo, come pensi tu
You believe that I hate the U.S. ?????? But if every time I defend the U.S. when they are with all those who in Italy hate ... maybe too badly translate from Italian to english... therefore I do not understand ... Even my nickname Rambo what you said? Do not you remember that Rambo is an American military !??!? So I love America, and American girls  ...
However it is true, here in Italy all hate the italian government .. almost all hate immigrants ... almost all hate American foreign policy ... Sorry, but I made a thread which says what they think other Italians to the question: "America is part of our lives ... USA and Italy are friends?
what you think ..?".... the responses of Italians are not mine, clear? Now tell me if you have understood to favour .. otherwise step for someone who hates the world, as you think
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05-29-2008, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Guido Gangi RAMBO... I am sorry... thank to make so many effort to discuss about topics so interesting bit please...
Italians don't hate americans, is not true, I am italian 100%...
Maybe someone don't like them, maybe someone don't like American system... that's fine.. but say we don't like americans it's an offense to them and to people like me. Because I don't like maybe or I disagree BUT I DON'T HATE ANYONE!!!
And if we are talking about americans who lead our plitics, it might be true... but is not theyr fault if we have a shit system... and I am sorry again but we exportet the MAFIA worldwide!!!!!
Ciao | ciao fratello... ho solo detto che molti li odiano (perchè strumentalizzano l'odio col governo americano, in odio verso gli americani)...io non so cosa dirti..a Genova molti odiano gli americani: a Genova molti comunisti odiano sul serio gli americani..io stesso apprezzo e amo gli USA, ma come i comunisti non odio l'ex unione sovietica e la sua dittatura comunista...sono di sinistra...ora oltre tutto anche i fascisti li iniziano ad odiare...forse sbaglio termine: non dovrei dire "odiare" "hate", ma utilizzare "non piacere" "don't like"... che ne pensi? sbaglio in questo forse?
Hello brother ... I only said that many hate them (because abuse hatred with the U.S. government, hatred towards the Americans) ... I do not know what to tell you .. In Genoa many hate the Americans: in Genoa many Communists seriously hate the Americans. . I appreciate and I love the U.S., but as the communists do not hate the former Soviet Union and its Communist dictatorship ... i'm of left ... now all over the fascists begin to hate them ... perhaps accidentally term : I should not say "hate" but use "not pleased" or "don't like" ... who do you think? mistake in this perhaps?
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05-29-2008, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Giacomo America is NOT perfect. Yes, I am proud to be American because America is in many ways a great nation. We have toppled dictators, we have helped victims of disasters, we have allowed people from all over the world to share in our prosperity.
However we have many issues here to deal with. Our fast paced fast food culture has caused stress, obesity, and ill health. Many seem to be obsessed with money to the extent that I only get 20 minutes for lunch in the afternoon! After all, time is money!! Worst of all there are some in this country who think that there is no country better than America and that everyone should just speak english all over the world.
Yes I am an American and I am proud. However, I wish to be in close touch with my Italian roots because they are so rich and colorful!
To Americans: our nation is a great one in may ways but thereis more to life than McDoanld's and apple pie!! | bravo...sostenete l'ITALIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Negli USA fatevi sentire!!!!!!!!!!!!
bravo ... support ITALY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In the U.S. felt let !!!!!!!!!!!!
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