Hi there!

I've been learning Italian for a little while now using this audio tape thing where you follow the person talking (and a lot of repeating). So nearly everytime theres an "R" there would be this rich, thick tongue-rolling sound which I can do but not for as long..

So I was wondering if some native Italian speakers had any insight to how their mouth does that "R" sound (where their tongue is, how it moves across, etc). It'll be interesting for you guys because you probably never think about it and just do it instinctively

Grazie! (oh and the "Z" sound is a bit tricky too, if you have any insights to that..)

The trilled r is undoubtedly the Italian sound that is most foreign to the majority of English speakers.
It is nothing like the r in most English accents. It is produced by vibrating the tip of the tongue
against the roof of the mouth, just behind the teeth.
Also the Italian "r" sounds something like the -rr- in "Arrive", "Arriving", "Arrival", for example.

Here are some Italian words in which this sound stands out.

Italian English
burro butter
ferro iron
guerra war
sorriso smile
rapido fast
arrivederci So long - Good bye

American English speakers have a lot of trouble with trilled r since this sound does not exixt in American English, although it
does exist in some dialects of British English, such as Scottish. In fatti(in fact) the Scottish are famous for making this sound.

The Italian R and Spanish R are basically the same. If you spoke Spanish you would have
no problem with this. Many people have missed the boat not learning Spanish. I went from
Italian to Spanish so had very little problems with the Spanish R.

Try saying words in English (this depends on dialect) like butter. The t's will slightly sound like
'r', but a slight tap only. Then try it in words like 'pero'. Even in the verb parlare you have to
sound out the r more. Io parlo, tu parli, Lei parla, noi parliamo, voi parlate, loro parlano. Roll that r a bit. (PARR-lah-no)

For words like 'Roma' RRRoma, blow extra hard on your 'r'. Try to say it in butter first, like you would
normally say:butter. Then blow harder. So it will sound like burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

See this link for help with the Italian "R"
http://www.wikihow.com/Roll-Your-%22R%22s

Practice saying these "r" words:

rabarbaro – rhubarb
rabbino – rabbi
rabbonire – to calm down, to pacify
rabbuiarsi – to become dark
racchio – ugly, ungainly
raccolta – collection
raccomodare – to repair
raccontare – to tell, narrate
racconto – narration, telling, story
raccordo – connection, link, joint
racimolare – to scrape together
radazzare – to swab
radice – root
raddoppiare – to double
raddrizzare – to straighten
radiare – to strike off
rado – thin, sparse
radura – clearing, glade
ragazzo – boy, lad, chap
ragno – spider
rallegrare – to cheer up
ramanzina – reprimand
ramare – to cover with copper
rame – copper
rana – frog
rancore – resentment
randagio – stray
rango – rank
rapare – to crop
rapido – quick, fast
rapina – robbery, plunder, booty
rapporto – connection, report
rapsodia – rhapsody
rasare – to shave, to cut, to trim
rasoio – razor
rassicurare – to reassure
ravanello – radish
razza – breed, stock, descent
realtà – reality
rebbio – fork, tine
recare – to carry, to bring, to bear
reddito – income, revenue
regalare – to give a gift
reggia – royal palace
regina – queen
regno – kingdom, realm
regola – rule
reintegrare – to restore
reliquia – relic
rena – sand
rene – kidney
reparto – unit, division, section
reputare – to consider
resa – surrender
restaurare – to restore
ricchezza – wealth
ricevuta – receipt, bill
ridacchiere – to giggle
rima – rhyme
riso – rice
ritmo – rhythm
rito – ritual
rivista – magazine
rivo – brook
robusto – stout, strong
rospo – toad

I seem to be able to get a sustained trill now, I used one of the mothods in the how to - a fake Scottish accent

Now I have to combine it into my Italian

Well, regarding the R I can't help you because I have problems making it too (strang for a native I know, but my mouth refuses to do it).
The Z sound is easier to make, English speakers mistake here is to read it like in English: [z], which is not correct in Italian, as that is the phonetic symbol for S as in uso = ['uzo]. The correct sound to make is [tz] or [dz], depending on the words.
Note that I'm using International Phonetic Alphabet symbols, if you learn those you'll have no problems with the pronunciation of every language.
Here you can find IPA for Italian, it's very useful if you know how to use it.

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[QUOTE=Zidanie5;18109]"Well, regarding the R I can't help you because I have problems making it too (strang for a native I know, but my mouth refuses to do it)."

Molto interessante. Actually didn't get the R down either until after speaking Spanish for awhile.
Took a class in Spanish phonectics/pronunciation theory and practice. We did a lot of actual out loud reading drills.

Repeat the word or phrase after your teacher.
(Zidanie, since you want to learn Spanish this would be good for you.)(Will help your Italian R at the sametime.)
(A proposito. If the word starts with R or has two R's then trill it piu(more). If one R just trill it a little.
So remember if the word starts with R pretend there are two R's.)
As opposed to the English r, which is formed in the back of the mouth with the back of the tongue, the Italian/Spanish r
is formed using the tip of the tongue on the upper palate, behind the front teeth, more like the English d. This
is good especially for the single r in words that don't start with r. So for the Italian word però try pedo actually pay-DOE or pay-ROH.( however, but)

Ricco, Rosa, ramo, Ricardo, Roberto, Roma, a Roma, perro, carro, erroneamente, arrogantemente,
rabo, becerro, arreglar,verde, moro, enterrado, torrero, amarra, cerrro, caro, hierro, barra, pero, ira,
lira, muerte, ir, dar, comer, hablar, enfentar, jugar, paear, ser, perla, juro, parte, cuerpo muerdo, cuerno

Es usted muy rica. Tiene usted mucha ropa? Miraba usted Zorro en la television? Corre usted a clase? Ahorra
usted mucha plata ahora? Conoce usted a Ricardo Rondon Rodriguez?(That's a great one to practice.)

My favorite:

Ere con ere cigarrro, erre con ere barril, rapido corren los carros cargados de azucar del ferrocarril.

R with R cigarro, R with R barrel, the train cars go fast loaded with sugar(on the railroad).

Roberto y Enrique paseaban alrededor de la reja. Querian entregar el recado, pero las cosa
estaba tan enredada que optaron por esperar una hora mas. No estaban enterados de que
estaba enterrado el rico que habia residido en ese barrio de Roma.

Robert and ENRICO(Henry)walked around the gate. They wanted to deliever the message,
but things were so mixed up they decided to wait one more hour. They weren't
informed that the rich man who had lived in Rome had been buried.

Had those last two memorized so would just say them over and over again. Needless to say I got the R letter down pact.

The letter z in Italian has two variations both different from the English z.

The z as in the Italian words zebra, zio and zappa sounds like a combination of the English letters d and z = dz.

The z in words containing –zione, such as stazione and colazione, and most words with double
z e.g. pazzo or tazza have a softer sound, rather like a combination of the English letters t and z =tz.

zacchera – splash of mud
zaccherone – mud–bespattered person
zaffare – to stop up
zaffata – stench
zafferano – saffron
zaffirino – sapphire
zagara – orange blossom
zaino – knapsack
zampa – leg, foot
zampare – to paw the ground
zampillante – gushing, spurting
zampirone – fumigator
zampogna – bagpipe
zana – basket
zangolare – to churn
zanna – fang, tusk
zanni – clown mask, fool, zany
zanzara – mosquito
zappa – hoe
zappare – to hoe
zattera – raft, slab
zavorro – ballast, dead weight
zazzera – mop of hair
zecca – mint
zecchino – sequin
zelante – zealous
zelo – zeal
zenit – zenith
zenzero – ginger
zeppa – wedge
zeppo – packed, crammed, bursting
zibaldone – mixture, medley
zelo – zeal
zerbino – mat
zibellino – sable
zimbellare – to lure, to entice
zimbello – decoy
zincare – to coat with zinc
zinco – zinc
zio – uncle
zippolo – pin, peg
zitto – silence
zizzania – discord
zocollaio – clog maker
zocollare – to clatter about in clogs
zodiaco – zodiac
zolfo – sulfur
zolla – clod
zollette – sugar cube
zompare – to jump, to leap
zona – zone, band
zoologia – zoology
zoppaggine – lameness, shake, rickety
zoppicare – to limp
zoticaggine – roughness, boorishness
zoticone – boor, lout, rough person
zucca – summer squash
zucchero – sugar
zuccheroso – sweet, sugary
zucchino – squash
zuccone – blockhead
zuffa – scuffle, fray
zufolare – to whistle
zuppa – soup
zuppiera – soup tureen
zuppo – soaked

Heres another question on Italian pronunciation: with double letters, how is it different from single letters? I read somewhere that Italians make it quite particular, and if you do it wrong it could become something else (their example was anno and ano)

Quanti anni hai?"—How old are you? sounds like an innocent question posed by someone just
learning the Italian language. But it can be a real conversation stopper, leading to guffaws,
laughter, and embarrassment, when mispronounced. That's because many beginners pronounce anni
(years) as ani (anuses). Speaking Italian doesn't have to leave you tongue-tied, though.

Italian Double Consonants

In Italian, all consonants except h can be doubled. Double consonants (i consonanti doppie) are
pronounced much more forcefully than single consonants. With double f, l, m, n, r, s, and v, the
sound is prolonged; with double b, c, d, g, p, and t, the stop is stronger than for the single
consonant. Double z is pronounced almost the same as single z. Double s is always unvoiced.

Double consonant examples:

Italian English
dimmi tell me (DEE-me) "dimmi." You pronounce this word like you would say the name "Jimmy," but the first "i" is long.
It might look like "dee-mee", except that the accent is only on the first "i". So it looks more like "DEE-mee."
This word is actually two words: the verb dire and the pronoun mi. The literal translation is something like "tell me" or "say to me." In Spanish "dime" pronounced DEE-may.
babbo dad
fetta slice
evviva hurrah
bistecca beefsteak
mamma mama
albicocca apricot
bello beautiful
filetto filet
anno year
assai a lot
basso short
ragazzo boy
ferro iron
pennello paint brush
espresso espresso coffee
tavolozza palette
spaghetti spaghetti
cavalletto easel

A Tongue Twister with R:

Trentatrè Trentini entrarono tutti e trentatrè trotterellando in Trento

Thirty-three Trentini entered all Thirty-tree trotting in Trento
(A Trentino is who live in Trento)
(Though it is not so difficult for those who can say the R correctly)

Grazie a tutti

i have more questions about the pronunciation,
one is about the letter h ... like in the word "ha". I heard italian people -in the videos- pronouncing it Ah with the h silent ?? have i heard it right?

and the letter g before an l, is it silent too?
i heard it in "Gli Stati Uniti" and i thought he said li not gli
plz correct me if i'm wrong

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