Over the weekend I was watching an Italian TV programme. The discussion concerned driving, drinking and falling asleep at the wheel. Most driving accidents occurring in Italy are caused by people under the age of 30, during the early morning hours, generally on weekends after a late night out, and involved drinking, but not necessarily. It was suggested that young drivers should receive more driving education and that the current driver education system was not adequately preparing young drivers. Improving upon driver education would be a big plus, but I think more needs to be done.
I think that the 'community' has a responsibility too. More surveillance should be conducted i.e. police checking drivers outside clubs and bars before they get into their cars. Or, making certain a group of people have a designated driver before leaving a club/bar. Or, that the bartenders take everyone's car keys when they enter the bar, and if a person is observed as being drunk later on in the evening, then their car keys would not be given back to them; instead a taxi would be called for them. I have seen this done in the U.S.A. very often. But what if someone is not even drunk and they have an accident due to falling asleep at the wheel? A pot of coffee would be the answer?

kfscala

You know Karin, when I was living in Italy drinking and driving expecially by young people did not seem to be a problem. My father was a wine company rep ( Ruffino ) and since I always saw wine on my table I did not think that drinking was a particolar cool things to do. I remember I had my first beer at 22! I hear however that now things are quite different and I too heard of those night accidents by kids drinking ( and more ) - Here in the US there are very strict laws. DC has zero tollerance for example. The post had an article about a woman who was arrested and had all sort of troubles for having a beer and driving, but this it too much I think.
Paolo

Drinking and driving in the US is a little different.

From a young persons standpoint, I can say that it is more common that most people know.

Whats upsetting is that once someone drives drunk and makes it to their destination without troubles, they think that everytime they drive drunk they'll be fine, so they continue to do it.

I was also given wine at the dinner table at a younger age, obviously in moderation and with parental consent. I found that I didn't like wine at such a young age, so there was no "hype" to alcohol when there was a party or peer pressure at a later age.

Its unfortunate. People want what they can't have. If you don't give kids the experience at a young age what it tastes like, then they'll seek it out by any means later in life. I know from personal experience.

My friends mother did not teach him this way. The second he had alcohol in hand for the first time, he wanted more than he could handle... anyways, long story short, teach kids at a young age, then it won't be a problem.

Ciao,

A friend in Italy also told me, as Dan and Paolo say, that Italians are given wine from a young age so they don't have the same view of alcohol we do here in the states.

Italians drink a lot of wine, but I have never seen a drunk Italian... of course I've seen them happily tipsy, but they don't drink to excess the way Americans tend to do. They don't 'go out drinking' as Americans do. They go out to eat or hang out with friends, and they have a glass of wine (or a few) or a beer (or a few) but their goal is not to get drunk as it is here.

There's a fundamental difference in the perspectives on alcohol in general between the USA and Italy.

And yes, people want what they can't have... we make alcohol hugely more attractive by denying access to it, and then wonder why our kids go crazy when they finally get their hands on it.

Teresa

But when they stop someone in the USA who they suspect of drinking they have to do the breathalizer test. Some people can drink several beers and they pass the test. While another person who has low tolerance for alcohol will fail the test. Paolo, maybe that woman only had one beer but she was....oh well. But, I think too, that to crucify someone for one beer is too much.....

Yes, that is true Italians do not go out to get drunk.

Here in Italy I have seen Americans get really drunk. It is so embarrassing at times. I have received much respect though from Italian men--when they see me next to another American who gets drunk and then they see me sober, they just shake their head and LAUGH. I like the way the Italians handle their drinking. For them drinking wine is a ritual they do with their food.

When I was in Italy last summer I went for the first time to what I would call a 'bar.' It was dimly lit, the music was too loud, the bar ran the length of the room and was peopled with drunk people who had, by 10 PM, already had too much to drink. Most of them were strangieri, not Italians and they were all weirdly unaware of the fact that speaking more loudly did not mean others would understand their language.

I'd much rather go to a loud sidewalk cafe with cars driving by two feet from my table, people drinking a beer or glass of wine but not drunk, and everyone speaking Italian, loudly.

Teresa

When at our villa in Puglia we tend to eat at the same restaurant in Otuni. We have a friend there called Oronzo, he will drink all night with us and not think twice about getting in his Panda, with no hand break, and driving home. My husband and his friend have only ever accepted a lift once, never again.

Quick story, sorry it's not about an Italian, it's about a Frenchman.

I worked on a ranch in the remote mountains of Colorado, USA, an odd place to find a gourmet French chef, one might think, but there he was. Stefan drank a glass of wine or sherry for every tablespoon he put in the sauce, and he was usually drunk by noon.

Unfortunately for others, he was so used to his drink that he never showed signs of drunkenness. One evening, after a hard-cooking (i.e., hard-drinking) day, Stefan offered to drive a few of us to town.

Town was 11 miles down a mountain. Literally. We lived at 10,000 feet, the town was at 8,000 feet, and the road was switchbacks and narrow, along the sides of canyons. Stefan piled us into a car, started to town... two minutes later I was literally cowering in a corner of the back seat, praying to a god I'm not on good terms with in other circumstances, with my eyes closed.

Tires schreeching, radio blasting, Stefan singing at the top of his lungs, we went barelling down the mountain. When we stopped at the only traffic light in town 11 miles and eight minutes later, I crawled out the door and lay safely on the side of the road while Stefan and his victims zoomed merrily away.

I never got in a car with him again. He told me he was the best driver in his hometown.

Fifteen years later he's still alive, he still drives drunk, and he says "I'm French" as if that explains why he can continue to drive drunk and make it home every night. Maybe he's right and there's some European driving gene... or maybe he's just lucky. :confused:

Teresa

I can say I do admire many Italians in the way they dine and take their wine.

However, on the other hand, there are those Italians who do not care about their fellow human being. Yes, there are Italians who DO drink and drive. I was attacked by a man, who was drunk. I had to call the police. The man FORCED my car off the road. He was in a Mercedes, by the way. The man put his fist through my car window and tried to grab my telephone away when I was calling my husband and the police. This man had alcohol smell on him as he breathed into me while I sat in my car. His behavior was very, very vulgar. Luckily I got the tag number. The man was in his fifties--not a young kid--but a very irresponsible adult, and one who did not have respect for others on the road and certainly not for women either. And, to make things even more sad, the police NEVER came to my aid. If that had been in the U.S.A. it would have been dealt with quite differently. I had to go to the Carbinieri office to bitch and complain. Sad, isn't it?

To think that Italians are not driving and drinking regularily is a myth. They do. And, not only do they drink and drive, but because they are intoxicated with alcohol they get aggressive with other drivers while intoxicated, they ALSO get away with it many times.

Driving and drinking is not regulated here in Italy as it is in the USA, in the meaning that drivers are not checked as they get into their cars after drinking by establishments.

kfscala

I've never seen people drunk like in U.S.
I visited many countries and many cities in the world but the most drunk people I have ever met was in U.S.
I think this happens because alchol ban. I visited my family in U.S. and it was very strange for me when they asked my ID card in the front door in a pub.
I had my international drive licence but not my passport and they didn't let me go inside. My cousin, who is 19, had a fake ID and he could. I tought men at doors check about age and not about regular documents as my passport as well.
Anyway sometimes I think people in U.S. need drink to have fun. They start drink when they live at college and when they are 21 there are no limits anymore and can demonstrate they are adult. I don't like drunk girls they are really ugly, specially the prettiest ones.
I think is a social problem that need to be solved in an other way than with prohibition.

With one exception, I agree with the last post in saying that nowhere else than the U.S. have I seen people drunk the way they are here. I know alcoholism exists in other countries, of course, but somehow it seems as though Americans take it to excess more... excessively.

The one exception was in May, 2005. I had the (mis)fortune to be in Istanbul, Turkey during the UEFA Championship game between Milan and Liverpool. Watching the Milan players stroll through the Arasta Bazaar was an experience I will treasure forever - you don't realize how big and powerful those men are until they walk close by - but the aftermath of the game was the worst.

Liverpool won the gioco and every single Englishman in the city (and there were many, in town specially to attend the championship game) spent the entire night drinking and singing and yelling and singing and then singing some more, and then fighting... and then drinking and yelling and fighting, outside my hotel. In the morning, most of them were still awake, singing and drinking and singing... and the ones who had passed out had done so in the streets.

I must admit, I've never seen that in America.

I think the responsible drinking and appreciation of alcohol needs to be taught, and I think countries that start that education early have a much better chance at keeping irresponsible drinking of any kind in check.

I agree that putting alcohol in a kind of jeweled box and telling kids 'don't touch that box' is probably the best way to make sure that's the first thing they'll do when you turn your back. If it were no big thing, drinking wouldn't hold the fascination it does now in the U.S., and it would less likely be an initiation rite, or a pasttime (sp?) for a Friday night.

Teresa

Yes, people get drunk in the USA, but I have seen it elsewhere too. We cannot just say it is only in the USA. And, honesty, I cannot say Americans drink and get more drunk than other nationalities. There was a time when I believed that Americans were more drunk. But the more I live in Europe I must say my opinion has changed. In fact in the last few months I have noticed changes. What I can say is that many European countries have people of both genders who go out, party, drink and get drunk. So, the Americans are not alone in being the ones who want to go out to drink, have fun and get drunk. The anglo-saxon cultures and north Europeans tend to go out more to drink and socialize, whereas Italians tend to do less so. I have seen many British and Irish people get very, very drunk, so I again cannot say the Americans are the worst drunks! There is also a big difference in how women socialize, too. American and north European women, of all age groups, are more extroverted, love people and like to socialize and do go out to drink with their women friends or in mixed company. I have noted that I see less Italians getting very drunk in public as compared to Americans and others, but then again we don't know if that might change in the future.

kfscala

Karin,

I had a thought when reading your post... you mentioned that Italians don't seem to go out drinking to socialize, and that there tend to be less of them drunk in public, but that that might change.

What a horrible thought that the globalization of the world, which in some ways (maybe not quite destorys but certainly) influences many cultures in negative ways, might have this effect on the perception of alcohol and drinking in places like Italy where it is not seen as the thing to do on a Friday night, as it is in the States.

One of the things I love about Italy is that most (many? all?) people drink wine from an early age, it's not seen as an end in itself as much as a complement to dinner or conversation, and I haven't seen drunk people in public so much.

Sigh.
What is the world coming to??? :eek: (:) )

Teresa

As is well known around the world, Ireland has a massive drink culture and from a very young age (like 14, some younger!!) kids go out and drink, with the sole aim of getting drunk. Unfortunately by 18 it may have become a weekly habit, which then continues to worsen during college and 'the student life'. When I was Italy or among other italian teenagers, the problem was definitely not as bad as in Ireland, but it was there. Drinking to excess was not really accepted by their peers as it is here in Ireland, but they did do it.

However the point I want to make is in relation to drink driving - despite the irish reputation for drinking heavily, when it comes to driving not one of my friends or I would dare sit in the drivers seat if we'd so much as touched a drink, while my italian friends were quite happy to get behind the wheel after a few. Italians are dangerous enough drivers when sober, the thought of them driving under the influence is even scarier! I think that although they have a much better and healthier attitude to alcohol, they need to take on more responsibility in the car.

In Ireland we have ad campaigns on the tv and on the radio highlighting the dangers of drink driving. At times they can even be almost gruesome, but ultimatlely I think they are really effective at bringing the message home. I never saw or heard anything like them in Italy, although maybe they exist i don't know....are they in any other countries?

Drunk people are all over the place. Italians are not excluded. I am changing my views too, because here in this town where I live I have noticed in the last few months there are more drunk people around and their alcohol container garbage thrown all over the streets here in this town. I have walked past a certain bar many times on Sundays with my dog and noticed how all the youngish men drive up in their cars, park and go in to drink. Afterwards I assume they get into their cars to drvie home. I also noted in the last few months in Milan for aperitivo I am seeing more drunk Italian men. Things seem to be changing. I just hope no one gets into a car. Tonight I was hit by a car when I was walking my dog, on a street where I always walk. We have no sidewalks in most of the town, so I am always at risk when I walk here. I could not get the car tag number. I screamed at the car but they did not stop, they just sped off. But the fact that the driver did not stop is telling me something about their character. Phoned my husband immediately but he said we could do nothing since we had no car identification. The car drive was probably sober, but who knows really. There is a busy bar down the street where young people hang out. Later as I walked home past the pharmacy I saw a car and a man got out; the car looked like the one that hit me but I was not sure, he was at the automatic condom machine outside the pharmacy. My dog and I stopped and looked at him for a long time. But I do know I saw a man in the car driving.
K.