m1ke_l
08-09-2008, 04:21 AM
I have come across many posts from people recording their own paths to dual citizenship, and thought I would add my own in a more point by point way.
My great grandfather was born in Siena Italy, and by the Italian rules, I qualify for citizenship also IF:
1. He never renounced his Italian citizenship by becoming a US citizen.
2. If he did do the above, he son (my grand father) must have been born PRIOR too that date.
If this is true (that my grand father was at least born prior to any renouncing), then technically my grand father, and my father are technically both Italian citizens, just not documented ones.
Therefore, I too am an Italian citizen.
Now I just need to prove all of this.
It is much easier to do this via the paternal side, since only recently (1948 i think) were maternal links to Italy even counted.
I started by doing a simple family tree, with help from family and from Ancestry.com.
Once I had the tree laid out, I then started contacting official agencies that hold documents I needed:
Starting from my “in” into Italy. I figured if I couldn’t get the hard documents, there was no point in trying to get the easy ones, like my own:
1. Birth, marriage, death cert’s for my great grand parentS. Yes…both paternal and maternal for everything, though the maternal side doesn’t really “count” in my case.
These would obviosly come from the town in Italy where they were born, wed and possibly died. You’ll need to find out where and who to contact on your own. For me, it was the commune(?) of Siena.
We sent a letter translated into Italian (via babelfish.com) and 15 EU’s since that is about what US agencies are charging for such documents. We also sent along return postage envelopes from the USPS. All of which were returned with a statement saying that they don’t charge for these requests. They also included all the documents we asked for.
Also, I need to prove that they (at worst) became US citizens AFTER they had my grand father. In my case I don’t think they ever were US citizens, but I still have to prove that.
Note…right now I am 57,404th on the list of cases at the US Citizenship and Immigration Services. No joke. They sent me a letter. I am the 57,404th case they will look at before sending me a letter saying they have no record to send me.
Also note, it is much easier to get documents if the person has been dead a longer time. Great grandparents doc’s from Italy were easier to get than those for grand parents out of NY. This is for obvious security reasons.
2. Birth, marriage, death cert’s for my grand parentS. Again, both paternal and maternal.
3. Birth, marriage, divorce, marriage certs for my dad and mom.
4. and finally my birth, marriage, divorce, marriage certs along with my wifes.
There was some question as to whether or not my father would first have to apply and become a dual citizen before I could, but I called the consolute and I am still unclear.
The NY Health and Mental services people (who hold my grand parents records) are kind’a weird.
We asked for birth and death cert’s and included a letter explaining why (they don’t reply to requests for proof of lineage or something so word your letter accordingly). Anyway, they sent the death certs, but said they wouldn’t release the birth certs unless we sent them the death cert’s of the people we wanted birth certs for.
So I guess we have to send back the death certs in order to get the birth certs or something. Still working on that.
I have now asked my father to start collecting his own documents since it is easier to request your own than for me to request them since he is still very much alive.
Since we have made such good progress, I will now start pulling in my own certs to add to the pile.
The Boston Consolute signore was very nice and was eager to get me to come talk to him, but without all the paper work there was no point.
However, once I get the last few piece’s, I look forward to my conversation with him.
I’ll keep appending this post as events unfold.
Hope someone finds this helpful.
Updates:
NY is still weird. In order to get birth cert's for my grand parents I need to send NY copies of their own NY death cert's that NY has! and not "copies".
First I had to order the death cert's, then I had to send BACK those death cert's (not copies) BACK to NY so they would know that my grandparents are dead.
Then and only then, after I've given back NY NY's own death cert, will they release their birth cert's.
Weird.
My great grandfather was born in Siena Italy, and by the Italian rules, I qualify for citizenship also IF:
1. He never renounced his Italian citizenship by becoming a US citizen.
2. If he did do the above, he son (my grand father) must have been born PRIOR too that date.
If this is true (that my grand father was at least born prior to any renouncing), then technically my grand father, and my father are technically both Italian citizens, just not documented ones.
Therefore, I too am an Italian citizen.
Now I just need to prove all of this.
It is much easier to do this via the paternal side, since only recently (1948 i think) were maternal links to Italy even counted.
I started by doing a simple family tree, with help from family and from Ancestry.com.
Once I had the tree laid out, I then started contacting official agencies that hold documents I needed:
Starting from my “in” into Italy. I figured if I couldn’t get the hard documents, there was no point in trying to get the easy ones, like my own:
1. Birth, marriage, death cert’s for my great grand parentS. Yes…both paternal and maternal for everything, though the maternal side doesn’t really “count” in my case.
These would obviosly come from the town in Italy where they were born, wed and possibly died. You’ll need to find out where and who to contact on your own. For me, it was the commune(?) of Siena.
We sent a letter translated into Italian (via babelfish.com) and 15 EU’s since that is about what US agencies are charging for such documents. We also sent along return postage envelopes from the USPS. All of which were returned with a statement saying that they don’t charge for these requests. They also included all the documents we asked for.
Also, I need to prove that they (at worst) became US citizens AFTER they had my grand father. In my case I don’t think they ever were US citizens, but I still have to prove that.
Note…right now I am 57,404th on the list of cases at the US Citizenship and Immigration Services. No joke. They sent me a letter. I am the 57,404th case they will look at before sending me a letter saying they have no record to send me.
Also note, it is much easier to get documents if the person has been dead a longer time. Great grandparents doc’s from Italy were easier to get than those for grand parents out of NY. This is for obvious security reasons.
2. Birth, marriage, death cert’s for my grand parentS. Again, both paternal and maternal.
3. Birth, marriage, divorce, marriage certs for my dad and mom.
4. and finally my birth, marriage, divorce, marriage certs along with my wifes.
There was some question as to whether or not my father would first have to apply and become a dual citizen before I could, but I called the consolute and I am still unclear.
The NY Health and Mental services people (who hold my grand parents records) are kind’a weird.
We asked for birth and death cert’s and included a letter explaining why (they don’t reply to requests for proof of lineage or something so word your letter accordingly). Anyway, they sent the death certs, but said they wouldn’t release the birth certs unless we sent them the death cert’s of the people we wanted birth certs for.
So I guess we have to send back the death certs in order to get the birth certs or something. Still working on that.
I have now asked my father to start collecting his own documents since it is easier to request your own than for me to request them since he is still very much alive.
Since we have made such good progress, I will now start pulling in my own certs to add to the pile.
The Boston Consolute signore was very nice and was eager to get me to come talk to him, but without all the paper work there was no point.
However, once I get the last few piece’s, I look forward to my conversation with him.
I’ll keep appending this post as events unfold.
Hope someone finds this helpful.
Updates:
NY is still weird. In order to get birth cert's for my grand parents I need to send NY copies of their own NY death cert's that NY has! and not "copies".
First I had to order the death cert's, then I had to send BACK those death cert's (not copies) BACK to NY so they would know that my grandparents are dead.
Then and only then, after I've given back NY NY's own death cert, will they release their birth cert's.
Weird.