I'm looking for ideas/comments/perspectives on this:

We all know that stereotypes are not the best way to judge a group of people. They can be destructive and lead to prejudice and to treating others in ways that would be unthinkable under other circumstances.

However, we also all know that sterotypes work because there is a grain of truth in them.

And I think the biggest danger is taking that grain of truth and extrapolating to 'everyone' and to 'all circumstances.'

Given all that... how close do you think shows like The Soproanos, and movies like The Godfather are to anything resembling REAL Italian culture?

Italians... I'd love to hear from you on this one!

Teresa

(PS - I happen to love The Sopranos, and in fact just saw Federico Castelluccio {Furio} in the MET in New York, but I am very aware that The Sopranos are not representative of Italian culture in general... or are they....??? :confused: )

Interesting.!
I kinda wanta laugh about this....:D
They the Italo American stars make me laugh....

Hi Jacqueline!

I know just what you mean!

I figure that Sopranos Italians are like a huge exaggeration of all the characteristics and stereotypes we think of when we think "Italian mobsters." I can't help but really enjoy the show... :D

Teresa

Yes, these are the things that make us come back for more...:o




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTd0-_hHd3w&search=How%20Italians%20Tell%20Time%20funny%20vide o

Jacqueline,

I love this video!
Yep, that's the exact attitude/etc. I think of when I think "Italian stereotypes."

Teresa

I think the "Italians" portrayed in this TV show are quinessentially American. It's like Chinese food: Lo Mein in Iowa is made of certain ingredients and although I've never been to China I think it is safe to say I wouldn't recognize it there if it even exists. Likewise, I've had Chinese food in Peru which wasn't anything like Chinese food in the US. So, "Italian" in America to me is American with Italian seasoning, and in some cases, flavoring only. Taking it to Italian. I have yet to order a salad in Italy and be asked if I want the house "Creamy Italian"!

We Americans seem to always be searching to be something else or to identify with our ancestors instead of simply saying we are Amercian. It's kind of endearing until you meet up with people who say they are "such and such" when they couldn't even tell you anything about where they are supposedly "from". The current generation of "Italians" in America are mostl likely children, grandchildren and great grandchildren of immigrants. Those immigrants who came over the last 100 years or so left behind a life of poverty with the hope of attaining the American Dream through hard work and assimiliation. Like a large portion of immigrants today, most lacked formal education and their hope was with their children who were told to master English. For their parents and given the prejudices of those times, English was the road to prosperity and speaking the native language would keep that from happening. Moreover, prior generations didn't have the current technology and means to readily communicate in instantanously with those they left behind. When they left, it was forever and they never looked back. Unlike the last big wave of immigrants in the last century, the current wave of Latinos, Brazilians, and Aisians have the means to keep their culture strong and still acheive the American Dream.

Tony Soprano is not Italian. Is he Italian-American or is he just simply American? I guess part of being American is really saying that we are "Italian-American" "Irish-American" or "Chinese-American" "Hispanic" (this term is only used here in America to describe Latino!) or even Nuevoyoriqueño but from the eyes of people from the original places who look at us from the outside.... we are all Americans.

If you look at our history, when push comes to shove, we will defend our American way of life. If we didn't, we would have all returned to the places where our ancestors came from and America just wouldn't be America.

What we can charaterize ourselves as being is Americanized Europeans, if Europe is your place of roots. "American" simply does not exist.The Indians were the Americans. What is American? What do we possess that is souly American with no strings attached? We may have invented many things, but we will always look up to the older more wiser countries for guidance. What culture do we have if the Indians didnt exist? Everything we know has been derived from the European cultures, if you track down each and every food we have, recipes and other-- you will find that they all contain threaded roots that had originally spawned from places other than America. The only thing we did, was to dismember the recipes and traditions and incorporate new, more original substances-- that in the background, the European roots still linger. We changed, even evolved-- but we are still tissue of where we came from, and everything we know is because of our ancestory and roots. How can we characterize a true American? We do have different habits, and a different mentality--due to all the miixing and to our exposures from it all, but Americans are just people mixed in a brew consumed with specks from other lands.

Choktow, Shoshone, Wampanaog, Dinai, Penobscot, Cherokee, Tlingit are names many native peoples prefer. I've also been told by them that "Indian", "Native America" is also OK but I have had the awkard experience where both of those words were offensive to native peoples so I try to use their clan/tribe names - it's a safe bet. It's a big discussion to say that the only Americans were the indigenous peoples before the European invasion. National identity is problematic in our society because yes, we are from many origins however, the underlying values, and language that tie us all together give us our national identity and part of that identity is the racial and ethnic diversity and pluralistic society in which we live. While jazz is rooted in the African American experience, it is still uniquely and wonderfully American.

As far as taking from other cultures, isn't that what people throughout history? Italian, Spanish, Catalan, Gallego, Provincal, Italian and Rumanian are all based on Latin. It happened over centuries when the Romans and locals mixed up in each of those regions. It turns out figs were the oldest domesticated food wheat, potatoes, tomatos are not native crops to Italy or anywhere in Europe. The moors occupied Sicily for several centuries and brought rice and saffron to Europe. Sicilian language has a lot of Spanish in it. Does that mean Sicilians are really Moorish-Spanish-Italians-Sicilians? Perhaps in 1,000 years (if global warming doesn't get us), we will all be just one big place and one people.

So back to the thread. Tony Soprano to me is uniquely American with Italian roots. If he hadn't been born and raised here, he wouldn't have come out like Tony Soprano. If he hadn't been of Italian origin, he wouldn't be Tony Soprano, either.

interesting to live with someone from italy.

Teresa,
i do not think Sopranos look like italian culture........it is just an exagerated movie, yes, of course we still have mafia in our country but Mafia is a mentality, a way to think of some italian people,a part in the whole rest.
I know personally Federico Castelluccio and he is a nice guy nad avery talented painter.

ciao

Enzo,

You know Federico Castelluccio?? Please tell him I love his art. :D I really do wish I'd said hi to him when I saw him in the MET in New York....

I agree with you that The Sopranos aren't 'real' Italians. And I am asking in another thread about the power of today's mafia... do you know anything about whether or not it's as big today as it has been?

Teresa

I live in New Jersey and have lived in Italy for a few years so I have decent perspective here. I have never seen an Italian act like many of the Italian-Americans i see here in New Jersey. Most Italians here in NJ are way over the top. If you didn't know any better and assumed most Italians in Italy acted like they do here in NJ, it would not be a good thing for Italy. It can get real annoying sometimes as you have a lot of wannabes who say 'spaghet, mozzarell, la piz,' and insist that spaghetti sauce is called 'gravy' in Italy.

Few years ago I had a dinner with some Dodgy peaple not so far from Rome. Peaple that I know because we have an house in the country side where and they too. My girlfriend at that time, she is swedish, was impressed how they looks like sopranos. And when she told me that I realized that it was true. I was impressed too.

Of course most of the stories and caracters looks more like italo-american but still I cans see from the movie that it is a bit like we are.

About Godfather what can I say it is so so so close to Italy that you can't image...

My grandfather was sicilian and his way to lead the family was a bit like Brando...
Ofcourse my Grandpa wasn't mafioso but still he was the leader...
We couldn't live the table before him....
He had to lead the table during every meal...
Wow he was really really really Brando....
And I Know many others sicialn or any southern peaple that have this kind of respect about the oldest of the family....

I'm looking for ideas/comments/perspectives on this:

We all know that stereotypes are not the best way to judge a group of people. They can be destructive and lead to prejudice and to treating others in ways that would be unthinkable under other circumstances.

However, we also all know that stereotypes work because there is a grain of truth in them.

And I think the biggest danger is taking that grain of truth and extrapolating to 'everyone' and to 'all circumstances.'

Given all that... how close do you think shows like The Soproanos, and movies like The Godfather are to anything resembling REAL Italian culture?

Italians... I'd love to hear from you on this one!

Teresa

(PS - I happen to love The Sopranos, and in fact just saw Federico Castelluccio {Furio} in the MET in New York, but I am very aware that The Sopranos are not representative of Italian culture in general... or are they....??? :confused: )

Teresa - Any time Hollywood is involved don't ask if they are telling the truth, ask how much money are they wanting to make?

There are mobsters in every culture from every background. If there is any one characteristic that Italian Americans (at least) can identify from this garbage is that our culture is different from the who ever else people that live in the same town. And we identify with the idea that we will do what it takes (although not illegally) to provide for and protect our families.

Unfortunately, and I just saw this statistic on the Sons of Italy website that a majority of Americans see Italians as only good for crime, or restaurant work. This image has been created by Hollywood. Mr Gandalfini (sp? however you spell his name) and any other Italian American who does this kind of work should really re-think their strategy. They may be lining their own pockets, but they really make it hard for everyone else to be seen for what we are. Hard working, educated and honest.

Thank you Twila....
just some days ago Italians won some oscars...
we have quite several Nobel price
and many other good architects and writers and....
ok Italian are good too =)

See - Guido..I knew that you were sweet...As I said on another thread...I might just have to like you.

Thank you Twila!!
......... =) =) =)

I do have to agree with you Guido that The Godfather hits a little closer to home. My father was Sicilian and just like in your home respect is what he got! He wasn't mafioso either, but respect for older family members was ingrained into us. Family was/is most important. We were required to respect my mother, grandmother. Actually I don't think it is such a bad thing. I see a lot of children here who completely lack respect of any kind for their parents. They are very arrogant. They wouldn't last one minute in my family.