http://www.lifeinitaly.com/news/news-detailed.asp?newsid=7597

The Pope seems to be doing his best at upsetting as many people as possible. This time it's the turn of the atheists. I was brought up in a non religious family in various Christian countries, and am an atheist. I have no problem with people's various beliefs, but I find it incredible that a religious leader can say that atheism has caused terrible cruelty and injustice when religions have caused more wars than anything else.

Every Sunday churches are struggling to attract the faithful, and from the comments I hear from people here in Italy the incumbent Pope is not a popular one. I fear he is going to the Catholic Church more harm than good.

I do feel religion is a personal choice: whether to follow a religion, which one to follow and how to practice it are all part of an individual's private sphere. I am sure there are plenty of people who would disagree with me on this.

But Sardoman, I feel it takes a lot of courage to be an atheist. For me, I can turn to someone when I feel the need to connect to something larger than life, but for an atheist, it is taking things always on face value. One of my uncles is an atheist, and has gone thru various trials in life including many serious accidents, but I have never seen him flinch or give up. If atheism is your way of life, it can be as good a way as theism, and I respect it.

Hi Sardoman,

I have to respectfully disagree with you. The Nazi's and the Communists - both non-religious and strongly anti-Christian - caused much suffering and evil and millions and millions of deaths.

I would also argue that it is not religion that causes the evil and suffering that you are referring to but human beings who interpret their creeds wrongly. Good Christians, Moslems, etc. do much good in the world and shouldn't be judged by those who say that they're following their faiths but aren't.

I also agree with you, Bubbles.

Best Regards,
Lisa
www.webwritereditor.com

And now ... my point of view :-)

Ok I was born Catholic but I decided not to baptize my son ( now 7 years old ) I think he should decide on his own when he grows up. I am not sure what I am to be honest: My believe is that we cannot understand where we come from and why. I have a dog "Luna" and she does not understand electricity and computers - Well I think is the the same when it comes to understand God : our mind has too little processing power to understand who God is .
The latest theory on the creation of the Universe lead to believe that it was all as small as an atom originally. A point of infinite density and infinite temperature ( energy ).
Where that point came from ..... I guess we will never know... where the universe is heading we will never know ( ok we think is expanding ) .... Anyway i a little confused- But I think that God to be God has to be one - It cannot be a God for Christian one for Buddhist, one for Muslims etc etc -

Anyway I too heard a lot of negative things about this pope.

Hi Sardoman,

I have to respectfully disagree with you. The Nazi's and the Communists - both non-religious and strongly anti-Christian - caused much suffering and evil and millions and millions of deaths.

I would also argue that it is not religion that causes the evil and suffering that you are referring to but human beings who interpret their creeds wrongly. Good Christians, Moslems, etc. do much good in the world and shouldn't be judged by those who say that they're following their faiths but aren't.

I also agree with you, Bubbles.

Best Regards,
Lisa
www.webwritereditor.com (http://www.webwritereditor.com)

hi daydreambeliever,
undoubtedly the Nazis and Communists caused a great deal of suffering and used religion as an excuse. I also agree that the vast majority of people are good no matter what their religious beliefs are. However you cannot deny that for more than 2,000 years wars such as the crusades or the French Wars of Religion have been caused by religion. What worries me most is that it is the religious leaders who have all too often abused their position to distort the true line of their religion and influence those who follow it.

I agree with Paolo that religion should be a personal choice, made by informed adults.

What a provocative and challenging thread! Religion does seem to be at the heart of many of the world's cruelest atrocities (e.g. - ancient Pagan sacrifices, The Inquisition, The Crusades, The Salem Witch Trials, various genocides, etc.) Or, as Daydream Believer points out, it's the ultra-fundamentalist/ literalist application of said religions that's to blame.

But let's not forget politics either. The Crusades can definitely be seen through this lense as a land/power grab by The (medieval) Church, The Inquisition more an acquisition of the victim's wealth. And Blasphemy seemed the most convenient excuse to justify seizing the wealth of The Knights Templar and sentencing them to death.

I thought it no small irony that the Pope should blame materialism on "an excessive devotion to reason and rationality." Isn't it the "reasonable" and the "rational" of any religious group that counters the extremists?

[QUOTE]But I think that God to be God has to be one - It cannot be a God for Christian one for Buddhist, one for Muslims [QUOTE]

But why not? Why cannot one God come in many forms to many people? That's always struck me as more divine than forcing many populations to believe in one version of a Higher Power. (And then, who gets to decide which version is the 'right' one?)

For those who believe in a god/gods, their religion is very important, so I knew I might be in deep water starting this thread.

As a non-believer I still respect each person's belief, and as to ...

who gets to decide which version is the 'right' one?)

... well that should be the individual and how he/she practices his/her religion. One aspect I don't like about religion is how its doctrines are forced upon the faithful from an early age, and the guilt that they are made to feel if they don't conform.

Some years ago I read a article by this new pope, when I was only a Bishop.
He said some around: "In every monotheist religion there is the cognizance of a Good the name or the way we use to follow is road isn't important .... " isn't truth that in Italy no one love this pope.
Opposite I can give you many example of fidelity of Italian trust in good.
Remember that in Italy 80 % of voluntary association, are religlion, normally a people that understand is important the life or our neighbors can gave his helpfulness to the others.

This is the sense of what pope said

Ciao

The world is full of devout people who do good deeds and faithfully worship whatever religion they belong to. However it is always the smaller, vocal minority of extremists that give religion a bad name. Like the tite of my post implies, we don't think about the "regular" believers, We are too concerned about the fundamentalists or the terrorists. They are the ones whose faith compels them to make everyone believe the same as they do.

Personaly I am a religious cherry picker, a pluralist that tries to find the truths in all faiths in order to complete my own world view. However the truths of religion are often hidden behind walls of dogma and tradition. I feel the wrongs done in the world due to religious differences have more to do with cultural traditions and of course, dogma.

I was raised Catholic and fortunate enough to have a few minor contacts in the Vatican, where it seems that the Church is on the road to self-destruction. Pope Benedict - or should I say Maladictus is a poster-boy for dogma. He cares less about the message of his god than he does the message of his church - and that is the problem.

One interesting piece of information about Pope Benedict XVI is that at the time he was elected to office he was Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (original known as the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman and Universal Inquisition) a department of the Roman Catholic Church charged with suppressing doctrinal heresy. Kind of makes you stop and think
:confused:

just to add a bit more fuel to this discussion about religion, the present pope, etc.....has anyone else noticed how Prodi is conveniently out of town and the Pope is also not able to meet with the Dalai Lama? Personally, I find it quite shameful. I'm not a Buddhist but the Dalai Lama is the leader of an important world religion, even if countries are not willing to recognise him as the head of a state out of fear of treading on the giant feet of China. Prodi may be slightly forgiven for giving the Dalai Lama the dodge but the Pope??? You'd think that it's the kind of courtesy one religious head would accord another.

Pescarese:
In order to get together some information about the Jewish community in Rome I went to take a tour of the ghetto last time I was there ( in November 2007 ).
Pope Giovanni Paolo II was the first pope known to have made an official papal visit to a synagogue, when he visited the Synagogue of Rome on April 13, and he became friend with the head rabbi ( Rabbino ? ).
This pope instead turned down the invitation by the Jewish community in Rome.
We are definately going backward !

PS The tour of the Jewish ghetto was very interesting - Highly recommended

just to add a bit more fuel to this discussion about religion, the present pope, etc.....has anyone else noticed how Prodi is conveniently out of town and the Pope is also not able to meet with the Dalai Lama? Personally, I find it quite shameful. I'm not a Buddhist but the Dalai Lama is the leader of an important world religion, even if countries are not willing to recognise him as the head of a state out of fear of treading on the giant feet of China. Prodi may be slightly forgiven for giving the Dalai Lama the dodge but the Pope??? You'd think that it's the kind of courtesy one religious head would accord another.

I don't really understand Italian politics, and to be honest I don't really want to. But one thing is certain, the Vatican has major influence over the government.