I read with dismay on what is happening in Italy and how they are allowing all these immigrants to be practically invading their country. Italy is not obligated to let people in. It is not a melting pot land of immigrants like America is, it is a homogenous country devoloped over centuries and if this continues Italian societ and culture will be forever changed. Why is Italy allowing this? These foreigners will eventually intimidate Italians and Italians will end up bowing down to them. Every day boat loads of immigtrants cross the Mediterranean and land on Italy's shores. What happened to the agreement Italy had with N.African countries where they would curtail this? These people shouild be shipped back to where they came from and their governments charge for it. How come Christians cant move to Saudia Arabia and build churches there but Italy has to allow them in. Already there are terrorist cells in Italy waiting to harm Italian society and crime is increasing and neighborhoods are being ruined. Japan is a highly devoloped country yet they do not let people in and no one mentions that. Italy has its own problems in the south of the country with unemployment and poverty, they should take care of their own first. I believe in helping those in need but in their own countries. For those who say immigrants are needed because of a low birth rate. Does that make sense? That means let foreigners increase while Italians decrease? the Italian government must encourage Italians to have more children instead. I hope that those who are concerned about this would write to the Italian government and those who are religious would pray this would end and ask for the intercession of St. Pio.

I completely agree. This is a sad time for Italy and they must have radical change or they are surely doomed. It is sad to see such a privileged people allow this to happen. The Italian political infustructure is weak and needs to be changed entirely. It is infested with communists and the weak, and they allow themselves to remain divided. Like I said this will be a very sad period in Italian history. The ancestors of the great Italian land would never allow this to happen. If only the Italian people would remember who and where they derive from, maybe then they would relize how shamefull there current situation is and then force change to happen. But for now they sit quietly while their great way of life is deteriorating and their very existence as a people is threatened. I myself am returning to Italy in a few years and I do have political ambitions. It is my very distinct hope that the people will take these words to heart and relize their current situation needs to be changed for the better. Radical reform is the only answer. We must have a stable government in which the people play a very important and interactive part. Gone should be the days of the government "falling" because of weak coalitions of political parties and shattered unions. The people do not need this. Therefore they should look for a strong leader, someone who will look out for, and defend them. Not someone who will defend his own pockets instead. We do not need rich people in office. The true power needs to belong to the people. But we must remember, it is their decision whether they accept this realization, and if they accept it, then they must act on it, and this is my hope. So then, let the people never forget their national anthem and the meaning of its words, for if they do then they are wasting breath.

Thanks for the support. We need to curtail the immigration in Italy and we need to write to the Italian government and Italian organizations in regard to this and other issues. You are right when you say the Italian political system is too fragmented and if it wasn't so maybe things could be better. Not speaking out of bigotry but it is bad enough that Italians have allowed the Hispanic people to have literally taken over the Latin title when it is Italy's birthright and cultural legacy it is now allowing foreigners on its soil who will eventually, if they are not doing so already, dictating their desires on Italian society. To me it is a pretty scary thought how Italy would be changed because of this. We should do our part that is humanly possible and also for those spiritually inclined to pray.

Very much agreed, pray I shall. But as far as writing to the government is concerned that is not nearly enough. If we desire change to happen we must bring it upon ourselves to force it to happen. Dont forget that it is these very weak politicians that allowed this to happen in the first place. They are part of the problem, and therefore can not be expected to be part of the solution. They care not for the situation of the Italian people that they are sworn to defend. No, they are far too busy on thinking how they can become indeed more rich. writing to them does nothing it is action that will win us the day. Not to say I am encouraging riots or any other illegal activities, because I would never do that. But instead we must ourselves get into the political system and bring about the change ourself. We cannot trust our well being with these people who have no leadership skills. We must look towards people who can lead, not just have so much money they can pay for the most elaborate campaign. The Italian people must look for a true leader and until they can do that they will live in consistently worse conditions. I hope that the great Italian peopele can finally start to lift thier heads high and have a little bit more pride.

Just this morning I read on this website that 250 illegals have landed on Lampedusa. It seems that this problem is not going away soon. How do these people know how to get to Lampedusa in the first place? What technology are they provided with? In regard to the agreement with the N. African countries who were supposed to curtail these people from leaving their shores why aren't they doing anything about it. They must think the Italians are easy going that they do not get angry. Italy should demand they stop this from happening any more. I am not speaking out of racism but it makes me sick to think what Italy would be like if this continues with all these illegals landing on its shores. You are right when you say the Italian politicians are weak and the political system there is too fragmented and from one extreme to the other. However this should not prevent us from pressuring them and to contact all Italian organizations whether in America or in Italy and if enough Italians raised their voice these things could be changed. However, the immigration issue is not just with Italy, it seems every country that is basically white and/European is being invaded from all these different peoples, and those in charge are too weak or afraid to stop this because they would be accused of racism. If it was me I would send them back to where they came from. They don't belong there in the first place and I would not need to justify or defend my position

FJC...

WOOOOOW, you have nooooooo idea how your comments came across to readers...

According to you: "what makes a Mexican or any Hispanic Latin? nothing"

According to you: "there are no Latins in Mexico or South America, except Argentina and Chile".

Well, I studied 3 romance languages in College (meaning derived from Rome or LATIN). Yes, Argentina and Chile has Italian descendants, yes, but Latins are languages and cultures derived from Latin... such as Spanish, too.

Instead of focusing on Italy, you posted a severe biased racism against a HUGE block of people!

Most of us came here for a productive conversation about Italy... so I will skip over the rest of your post and focus on Italian topics.

I am only speaking facts. Why should I need to defend myself when I am speaking historical facts that Latin came from my ancestors in Italy. I know Latin also produced Spanish, Portugese and French and dont forget Romanian by the means of ancient Rome. What I object to is how the term is used only recently and exclusively for Spanish and Portugese speaking peoples mainly for Central and South America when most of these people are a mixture of races and made into their own race with this term and Italians aren't acknowleged to be Latin anymore. And in regard to Italy it is my love and appreciation for my heritage that I do not want to see it being overun my foreigners. Others may call me what they want but these people are practically invading Italy and they don't belong there in the first place. It is not a melting pot like America. You say I am offending readers and why? Dont they realize what will happen to Italy if this continues. The day will come when they will realize I am right. Already there are threats to Italian society from these peoples living there.

Sorry I answered the wrong post!
I must have had 2 browsers open
I will move tomorrow the above post to its right place. I think I am tired now.
Paolo

I must agree with you!

I am a (legal) immigrant to the United States. I came here about 20 years ago, as such I should be pro open immigration. Well, while most people consider me a pseudo-liberal, I am not in this case. The problem is while we immigrate / emigrate within the EEC states in Europe the cultures, while different, are very similar. For example: a few months back a Pakistany man who emigrated to Italy killed his daughter because she was behaving like an occidental. I think too much immigration will take away our own national identity ( more than our jobs). I think that if for example we would open completely the border between US and Italy not much change will happen. There are as many Americans who want to live in Italy as Italians who wants to live in the US so I do not see a problem there and also the way of thinking is not too different.
What I am most scared is that Italy will open the border to millions and millions of immigrant who will try to impose their point of view on life. I think we ( occidental ) should stay out of other country ( see Iraq - Afghanistan ) - If they want to live one way they should be free to do so. We should also help their country solve their internal problems. It seem impossible that in 2007 there are still people starving but sending them to Italy is not a long time solution. More people will replace the one who left those country and the only solution is to battle Government where Corruption and self-interests are their only way of life. I consider Bush bad, Cheney worse but there are so many governments in third world country that are so much much much worse than the Bush /Chaney administration.
Paolo

I understand that people immigrate to Italy to find a better life, but Italy is not a melting pot, it is a homogeneous society with a common language and culture despite some differences between the north and south. These people should be helped in their own lands, but it seems even those who live in countries that aren't in dire straights are going to Italy. I am not speaking out of racism though I believe the Italian identity should be protected and preserved, and I believe in helping those in need but these people do not belong there. If I wanted to live in a muti-racial and ethnic society then I would live in the USA, Canada, Austaralia or some other country that has a history of opening its doors to foreigners. Some may argue that Italy throughout its centuries was at times invaded by foreign peoples who settled on its shores so why shouldn't it let these peoples in, but today it is different. Italy is a unified political identity which has already reached a cultural identity. Also, Italy still has problems in the southern part of the country and it doesn't need to have foreigners coming in and besides some of these people will put their will on the Italian people and threaten the society.

As an immigrant to Italy (from the UK) I just wanted to add some comments.

Italy's problems with legal immigration is no better or worse than most other prosperous democratic states. Let me elaborate:

1. Italy, along with 26 other countries, are members of the European Union. This means that Italy cannot refuse entry to citizens of these states who to go there. These other 26 countries are:
Belgium, France, (Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Denmark, Ireland, UK, Greece, Portugal, Spain, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, Romania and Bulgaria.
Croatia, Turkey and Macedonia have also applied for membership.

Italy has also signed up to the 1985 Schengen Agreement which is an agreement among some European states which allows for the abolition of systematic border controls between the participating countries. What this means is that people can travel through Europe without ever being challenged.

2. Native Italians, in Italy, are on the decrease. Unlike the stereotypical image of the large Italian family, modern Italian couples have on average about 1.4 children, and have done for some time. This means that the native population is in decline. To such an extent that in 2005 the Interior Minister Giuseppe Pisano announced a plan to actively incourage 2.5 million immigrants to come to Italy. Not something you would expect from the Forza Italia party.

3. Chinese immigration exists all over the world. Look at most major cities and you will find a Chinatown. The Chinese tend to stick together and maintain their own culture when living abroad. But they are not unique in doing this. My theory about why Italians see the Chinese as more of a threat as they do in the UK , for example, is that they import clothes. In the UK and in other countries, when you think of Chinese you think restaurant. Here in Italy the number of Chinese restaurants is quite small, but on the other hand the number of Chinese clothe shops is quite high. This, in my opinion, is a direct attack on Italy's culture and society as world leaders in fashion.

4. It isn't as easy as all that to get social benefits in Italy. There are tighter controls than you might think. I came from a European Union country, yet I still had to get a resident's permit before I could even open a bank account, or get a job. Getting unemployment and social security benefits are not that easy either. According to official sources the unemployment rate for 2006 is 6.8%, yet it is generally accepted that the real figure is probably double that because of the buraucracy you have to go through to actually get the benefits. Most immigrants/asylum seekers to the UK freely admit that they go there because it is known throughout the world that it is easy to get social benefits from the government there.

5. Italy's problem with illegal immigration is really due to its geographical position. Sail west from pretty much any place in the Med and you will hit it, then claim political asylum and you will get lost in buraucracy during which time you can quite easily get lost in the country, or anywhere else in Europe that takes your fancy.

These are problems being faced by most of the developed democratic countries in the world. I certainly believe that more severe border controls are a necessity, but it won't solve the problems.

One other thought I'd like to add is that Italy is suffering a "brain drain". I agree that people come to Italy to have a better lifestyle, but with salaries being some of the lowest in Europe, the cost of living being high and the difficult employment situation, many Italians are going abroad to seek new opportunities and make a life for themselves. Kind of makes you stop and think!:confused:

One other thought I'd like to add is that Italy is suffering a "brain drain". I agree that people come to Italy to have a better lifestyle, but with salaries being some of the lowest in Europe, the cost of living being high and the difficult employment situation, many Italians are going abroad to seek new opportunities and make a life for themselves. Kind of makes you stop and think!:confused:

Excellent points, Sardoman. I really like your postings, the picture and the data you present are quite good.
I just re-read my posting in this thread and makes not much sense. I better go back to programming the website !
Would you mind if we make a new thread about "Brain Drain"? I think this is a problem larger that what everybody thinks.
Paolo

I am a (legal) immigrant to the United States. I came here about 20 years ago, as such I should be pro open immigration. Well, while most people consider me a pseudo-liberal, I am not in this case. The problem is while we immigrate / emigrate within the EEC states in Europe the cultures, while different, are very similar. For example: a few months back a Pakistany man who emigrated to Italy killed his daughter because she was behaving like an occidental. I think too much immigration will take away our own national identity ( more than our jobs). I think that if for example we would open completely the border between US and Italy not much change will happen. There are as many Americans who want to live in Italy as Italians who wants to live in the US so I do not see a problem there and also the way of thinking is not too different.
What I am most scared is that Italy will open the border to millions and millions of immigrant who will try to impose their point of view on life. I think we ( occidental ) should stay out of other country ( see Iraq - Afghanistan ) - If they want to live one way they should be free to do so. We should also help their country solve their internal problems. It seem impossible that in 2007 there are still people starving but sending them to Italy is not a long time solution. More people will replace the one who left those country and the only solution is to battle Government where Corruption and self-interests are their only way of life. I consider Bush bad, Cheney worse but there are so many governments in third world country that are so much much much worse than the Bush /Chaney administration.
Paolo
Hi Paolo. I was just wondering what you would think of my situation. I am an Italian American. I was born in the US, but was raised with very Italian traditions. I recently came back from Italy and decided that I like being around Italians. I was hoping to buy a second home there. How do you feel about someone like me buying a home in Italy? I am an American but my heritage is full Italian? Stefano

Excellent points, Sardoman. I really like your postings, the picture and the data you present are quite good.
I just re-read my posting in this thread and makes not much sense. I better go back to programming the website !
Would you mind if we make a new thread about "Brain Drain"? I think this is a problem larger that what everybody thinks.
Paolo

:D You don't have to ask it's your site!! Seriously though I agree. I'll post something in the morning (Italian time), goodnight!

Hi Paolo. I was just wondering what you would think of my situation. I am an Italian American. I was born in the US, but was raised with very Italian traditions. I recently came back from Italy and decided that I like being around Italians. I was hoping to buy a second home there. How do you feel about someone like me buying a home in Italy? I am an American but my heritage is full Italian? Stefano

I will be happy for you !
I probably miss expressed myself. I would be pro an open or anyway easier border between EEC and the US. The reason is that so anybody could choose where to live and I do not think the population concentration will be effected in any of this country. Opening the borders instead with countries like China and India could be a problem because I would expect an enormous number of immigrant coming into Italy changing forever the country: Italy with 110 million inhabitants would not be the same as now with 55 millions. I bought my house in Italy in Bolsena - a small town away from traffic and I hope it stays that way.

Paolo

... I would be pro an open or anyway easier border between EEC and the US. The reason is that so anybody could choose where to live and I do not think the population concentration will be effected in any of this country.

Paolo

I agree, if someone can demonstrate their heritage this way why not let them travel freely. I used to work with some Israelis and apparently Jews, no matter what their nationality, are all "honorary citizens" of Israel, yet they don't all live there! Yes I know the political situation in Israel is unique but the fighting is restricted to fairly small areas.

Farfallina

It seems to me you feel if you speak a language derived from Latin that makes you Latin.
I disagree,if you went to China and learned to speak Chinese would this make you Asian?
My point is Latins are indigenous to Europe,that would make them caucasian,most Mexicans, or Hispanics are Indians,African, mixed race etc.At no time did I say these races where inferior to caucasians,There is no racism in logic.
Why then are French not considered Latin ,or ROMAnians, English , and Americans and most of all Italians.With your statement they would all be Latin?
After all they speak ROMAnce languages
Also is this not the board for controversial issues?
I think you should study Anthropology,this is a more appropriate subject than ROMAnce languages,when discussing ethnicity,which is what a Latin is.Please spare me the I went to college I know everything attitude.Also it's not that big of a deal as I said before it's become a figure of speech more than a literal word.
Again no offense
fjc

I have just read that foreigners now total 3,000,000 people in Italy. What would Italy be like if this continues? They already have their own political party and that means they will dictate their wishes on Italian society and they will intimidate Italians. To me this is the Italians fault more than anyone else for allowing this in the first place. It should have been stoped from the beginning. One will feel like they are in an African or Asian country if this continues in Italy. It is sickening that this should be. Not that I have anything against others peoples but why should we call Italy the land of Italians if this continues. We will be a mixed melting pot of everyone and everything with no roots if this continues.

Johnny
I am trying to keep this forum as a light - entertainment forum. You now posted 14 posts all on the same subject. This is a subject where I do not have a clear answer myself - and I could go both ways depending on how I look at it, please lets stop this immigration thread. In any case not now but 1,000 years from not globalization will have mixed everything everywhere...It is just a matter of time.

Paolo

This is one of those threads that can go round and round forever with no resolution. Immigration is a touchy subject with no clear-cut solution. Let's drop it.

If Italians dont mind their country being over run by different peoples then its a hopeless cause. In regard to globalization only countries that allow themselves to be mixed will be, apparantly Japan or Israel will not let people in. Italians in Italy should help themselves more instead of helping all these aliens invading their land. Dont worry I wont post any more comments. I thought maybe I could wake Italians up but apparently they're in a deep sleep.

Also, I have not posted 14 comments on this subject only 6 and isn't this under controversial issues and daily news so why should this offend anyone? To me its the same for Italians as the collapse of the Roman Empire. Its bad enough immigrants are over running Italy and Italians don't mind they also don't mind that Hispanics have taken over the cultural legacy of Latin from them and they don't say a word. Wow, what has happened to them?

This is an area where it is too easy to oversimplify. Illegal immigration of low skilled workers should be treated differently. People who are so desperate as to make a dangerous journey here to sell purses on the street need to be treated with compassion, but there are clearly good arguments for maintaining an economic/integration balance.

The current regulations make it difficult for all forms of immigration, which means Italy is just cutting itself off from a large pool of hard-working, talented people. An openess towards others doesn't have to threaten the Italian way of life and can indeed enrichen it.

This post has worried me. Where is your compassion for these people - you could at least offer them some charity? You tell everyone to pray? I think to be truly Christian you have to have some compassion.

What regulations are there in Italy against immigrants? In fact there are none and the foreign population is increasing at 700,000 a year. If this continues Italians will be minorities in their own land. I have compassion on those in need and would be willing to give aid but that doesn't mean they should be overunning Italy or other countries that aren't melting pots in the first place. All I know is I wouldn't want the famed Italian cities like Rome, Florence or Venice to end up looking like a casbah or a slum.

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I was under the impression the above is what this post is about. If you don't like it don't read or post. But we should have the right to do so if we wish! I may or may not agree with it but defend the right to have it!

Of course I don't believe in illegal immigration, but what about legal immigration. There are loads of Italian people living here in my town in England - loads of Pizza and Italian restaurants. When my lovely Irish dad first came to England, he couldn't find anywhere to live and was greeted with signs 'No blacks, no Irish'. He's worked very hard in the health service, and paid tax all his life and contributed to the British economy. Surely not all immigrants want to live in slums if they are given the opportunity to contribute. Anyway I'll let the subject drop now.

What regulations are there in Italy against immigrants? In fact there are none and the foreign population is increasing at 700,000 a year. If this continues Italians will be minorities in their own land. I have compassion on those in need and would be willing to give aid but that doesn't mean they should be overunning Italy or other countries that aren't melting pots in the first place. All I know is I wouldn't want the famed Italian cities like Rome, Florence or Venice to end up looking like a casbah or a slum.

To say that there are no restrictions on immigration to Italy isn't accurate, see my previous post in this thread (no.12). There are little if no restrictions between EU member countries, but there are the usual checks and restrictions on those arriving from any other parts of the world. Furthermore, the large number of immigrants coming to Italy is also as a result of the Berlusconi governemnt which introduced a policy of active immigration to counteract the falling native population.

I don't know what your first hand experience of Italy is, but as an immigrant here I can tell you that the vast majority of us are working and paying taxes. There are, of course, those who are not as fortunate as me who have come here and haven't been able to find work.

There is one simple solution for all this: more unprotected sex among Italians! Yes :eek: Italians need to start having more babies otherwise they will be an endangered species

I am a romanian (living in Romania) and I visited Italy a few times and of course I saw the romanian community there.

Most of the criminals from Romania moved to Italy. This happened because in Italy law is very gentle with small and medium criminals. For example in Romania for stealing a parfume or a bread you can get from 3 to 15 years in prison, for card frauds in Romania you get from 10 to 30 years in prison, well it's obvious why they moved to Italy, in Italy if you steal something of small value they let you go, the law is to soft for small and medium criminals.

Italy should make it's laws more severe then the criminals will leave this country and move to another one where the laws are soft.

Another thing Italy should do is to deny residence to all who have a criminal record in other countries.

Romania is not a country of thiefs and criminals, the problem is that you only know them because most of the criminals from Romania moved to Italy and they have influence over honest Romanians who work there making them criminals to.

Italian police announced on Thursday the arrest of hundreds of suspected illegal immigrants in a sign of the
determination of Silvio Berlusconi's new right-wing government to clamp down. Police arrested 383 people including
268 foreigners, with 53 immediately taken to the border for expulsion, in a week-long operation stretching from northern Italy to the Naples area.

Italy arrests 400 in illegal immigrants swoop"There is no Romanian community problem in Italy -- there is a security ... He also wants to make illegal immigration a jailable offence and speed up the ...
www.romea.cz/english/index.php?id=detail&detail=2007_908 - 39k - Cached - Similar pages

The following is another aspect to consider when dealing with immigrants to Italy.

More than 8,000 Albanian girls are prostituted in Italy, and more than 30% of them are under 18 years, stressed participants
of a seminar in Tirana, Albania on the international traffic of women and children. The main reason for this trafficking is the
economic inequality between richer countries and the poverty in Albania and other similar countries. The speakers asked governments and politicians to take
measures to ensure that human rights are respected. (G.J. Koja, "8000 Albanian Girls Work as Prostitutes in Italy," HURINet –
The Human Rights Information Network,

In Milan, Italy, 80% of street prostitutes are foreigners (Brussa, p.49) ("Trafficking of Women to the European Union:
Characteristic, Trends and Policy Issues," European Conference on Trafficking in Women,

There are 19,000-25,000 foreign prostitutes in Italy. Approximately 2,000 have been trafficked. (Migrant Information Programme,
"Trafficking in Women for Sexual Exploitation to Italy," IOM,

The victims of trafficking are between age 17-20, with some as young as 14. (Migrant Information Programme,
"Trafficking in Women for Sexual Exploitation to Italy," IOM,

Can't understand how some people will not speak out against this!

The post from Pendragon was very revealing - That should be the reason - In Italy if you steal a perfume they tell you not to do it again ... As I mention in another post many people who are convicted of murder are out after a few years. It id work for Italy for a long time but I can see how this can attract criminals from other countries. Very relaxed prison sentences did sort of work for a long time: after all the US with much harder sentences has many more murders showing that even the capital punishment does not work to prevent crime.

Villa: "Can't understand how some people will not speak out against this!" ... well I think that prostitution is called in Italian "Il mestiere piu' vecchio del mondo" - It think it is disgusting however the use of minors ...but what people can do - I am sure prostitution is all over the world however - There is a talk now to re-open the brothels in Italy and make it all legal and supervised ( like in Nevada ) but I am not sure what it will happen with the proposal -

People migrate because their original countries are at war and they search better living conditions. Nobody wants to live in a war torn country and nobody likes to be starving and malnourished all the time. Thats why african from war torn countries took the risk of crossing the sea in unsafe boat in search of better life. We should not blame them for doing this because evrybody has the right under the UN Charter of human rights, the right to a better life.

Among the main issue when talking about immigration is whether the society wants to accept and assimilate with these immigrants or not? Often so, immigrants are shunned away and thats why they stick with their own and formed their own communities because they felt unwelcomed. But there are also immigrants who do integrate in the society.

If an african obtain an Italian citizenship and he/she speaks italian, work and contibute to tax, does it means he/she is of lesser worth than of original italian italian?
what about those italians who migrated to America or the koreans who migrated to America and obtained American citizenship? does that made them of lesser american because they used to be immigrants?

People who came from poorer countries are normally treated with double standards than of those who came from richer countries..take for examples the middle class british who makes the south of spain their retirement home? they do not mingle with the local spanish people, neither do they intend to learn spanish...Benidorm is full of british people and the local spanish have became minority in their own place but because the british spends lots of money there, the spanish govt do not care at all about the local people, what's important is the money they generate...

johny,
If Japan is near to Africa, i am sure that there will be immigrants too in that country, its just that Japan is very far from Africa...

not all immigrants create chaos and there are some immigrants who are of honest and hardworking people, its just that the media likes to potray the bad and negative side of people instead of the good...

If you say that the increase in crimes are solely the fault of immigrants, then read again the newspaper, the murders done by the Camorra, by the Ndrangeta, the rubbish in napoli and campania, the drug pusher in Milan, are they immigrants or Italians? Blaming solely the immigrants for crimes is a crime itself, in America you call that hate crimes isn't it? or is it xenophobia?

Whatever it is, italians or immigrants, we should treat every people with respect

For more than 3,000 years Italy witnessed many migrations and invasions from Germanic, Celtic, Frankish, Byzantine Greek,
Saracen, Norman, and the French Angevin, Spanish and Lombard peoples. Italy was also home to many well-known and influential
civilisations, including the Sardinians, the Etruscans, Greeks and the Romans.(It is thought that the Etruscans were originally
from what is now Iraq!) The Romans went all over the known world and brought deverse people to Italy such as Jews, Arabs,
Africans and more. The Roman Empire in Italy was one of the first true multi-cultural empires.

At the same time later Italy invaded Albania, North Africa and Ethiopia/Somalia. Many of these people went to Italy too.
How the sam hell can anybody talk about some kind of purity of the Italian people. Italians are a mixed group at best.

Fa moltissimo, moltissimo anni fa I met two brothers in Glendale, California who were from Libya. They both spoke fluent Italian.
They were surprised I spoke Italian and I was even more surprise that they did.They had never been to main land Italy. Their parents
were Italian and had gone to Libya. Seems Libya was a colony of Italy from 1911 until cerca 1945. One of the brothers spoke
Spanish too because he had married a Mexican lady. Said Spanish was easy for him to learn.

The Italians in Libya numbered 108,419 (12.37% of the total population) at the time of the 1939 census. They were concentrated in the coast around
the city of Tripoli (they constituted 37% of the city's population) and Bengasi (31%). In 1938 the governor Italo Balbo brought 20,000 Italian farmers
to colonize Libya, and 26 new villages were founded for them, mainly in Cyrenaica. The 22,000 Libyan Jews were allowed to integrate without problems
in the society of the Fourth Shore (but after summer 1941, with the arrival of the German Afrika Korps, they started to be moved to
temporary internment camps in Libya under Nazi SS control).

Mussolini wanted to assimilate even the Arabs of Libya (whom he called "Muslim Italians") and so in 1939 were created 10 villages for Arabs and Berbers:
"El Fager" (Alba), "Nahima" (Deliziosa), "Azizia" (Profumata), "Nahiba" (Risorta), "Mansura" (Vittoriosa), "Chadra" (Verde), "Zahara" (Fiorita), "Gedina"
(Nuova), "Mamhura" (Fiorente), "El Beida" (La Bianca). All those new villages had their mosque, school, social center (with sport installations and cinema)
and little hospital.


On January 9, 1939, the colony of Libya was incorporated into metropolitan Italy and thereafter considered an integral part of the Italian state.
By 1939 the Italians had built 400 km of new railroads and 4,000 km of new roads (the most important and large was the one from Tripoli to Tobruk,
on the coast) in Libya. Most of these achievements were completed between 1934 and 1940 when Italo Balbo was governor of Libya.

The next year started the war between Italy and Great Britain, until the North African campaigns of World War II left Libya in British and French
hands. All the Italian projects disappeared after the Italian defeat: Libya in the late forties experienced the beginning of the worldwide process
of decolonization, that characterized the colonies of Europe in the fifties and sixties.

Are there really any new immigrants to Italy?!

If you study the history of Italy, people have always immigrated to Italy and they have always had conquerers, yet the people always adopted Italian culture which is always the case. Italians, although gracious are not easily intimidated and they are no push overs. When one comes to Italy, one must learn Italian to survive. They don't bend over like the United States and print everything in other languages. Also, the current administration is deporting illegal immigrants left in droves. It also does not seem as if it is easy to claim asylum. When one arrives, one must register with the Carabinieri and declare one's presence. If one is requesting to remain, one must apply for a permesso di sojourno. Thus, one has to have at least $12,000 dollars in the bank, submit to a background check and fingerprinting and just the mere process of the interview and paperwork requires a command of Italian.
Please do not feel as if Italians are these gentle, meek and mild people who are afraid to push back because they are not like that. America is the salad bowl that allows people to maintain separate identities, language and culture. In Italy, we are still British, Americans, etc but we must conform to Italian ways and it is a good thing.

Mizzday, This past summer I spent over a month in Perugia. When I got off at the train station I immediately saw all these people

that were speaking Spanish. Since I speak fluent Spanish I felt right at home. So naturally I started asking around where everybody

was from. Most were from Peru but there were also people from Ecuador, Colombia, Bolivia and of course Argentina. Did my investigations

and found out that the people from Peru, Ecuador and Bolivia were the ones doing do all the same types of work that Mexicans and Central

Americans do here in California and most of the rest of the U.S. Several of these people I met that were from Peru and Ecuador spoke fluent

Italian one of which spoke only Italian to me in a long conversation we had.


All the Argentinans I met were of somewhat higher class and all were of Italian origin and getting or had their Italian citizenship.

One person I met was from Colombia but her grandfather was from Italy so she was in the process of getting her Italian citizenship

just like many I met who were doing the samething. Oh, I met many people from Brazil also. Another person I met from Colombia had been in Italy

for 28 years! He said that when he went back to Colombia they called him an Italian but in Italy he was still called Colombian.

So Mizzday, What is your opinion on these people being in Italy? Do you think that forse these people from Peru have somewhat of a right to be in

Italy considering that there are 436,000 Italians living in Peru? How about the people from Argentina that has 3/4 of it's population from Italy?

What about the Brazilians in Italy? Brazil has the largest population of Italians outside of Italy a proposito.

i had a classmate in university from Argentina and of italian origin but when i asked him if he intends to have an italian citizenship, he quickly said no, he added that his family is doing fine now in Argentina and does not need to change countries. He also mentioned that he intends to go back to Argentina after he finishes his study in europe.

Ronald, Can you answer this question? Per favore.

What is your opinion on these people being in Italy? Do you think that forse these people from Peru have somewhat of a right to be in

Italy considering that there are 436,000 Italians living in Peru? How about the people from Argentina that has 3/4 of it's population from Italy?

What about the Brazilians in Italy? Brazil has the largest population of Italians outside of Italy a proposito.

Villa, I would love to respond with the best of opinions. However, because I am an American born citizen who lives in Italy, I really have no right to question if someone else has a right to be here. For the most part, it seems as if the Italians have a problem with people who come illegally and engage in less than honorable lifestyles to put it in a nice way. I have to say, in many ways, I can understand their point because it is kind of annoying to sit in a nice restaurant and have some guy walk up to you and try to either sell you something or beg for money. It happened to me as I stood in the vestibule of a church. However, as I have said before, it seems as if everyone tries to assimilate. Now you asked about the Brazilian's and because many of the women are involved in prostitution, I have a problem with it just as the Italians. Why, because I am a tanned woman and sometimes people get a little overly zealous in their thoughts if they make assumptions about a persons ethnicity. As far as what my husband says about the Peruvians. Apparently, they have an awesome reputation as hard workers and people who pay their bills on time. However, as I have said before, I can't make that judgment call of someone having a right to be in Italy because I'm an American.

[quote=mizzday;11253]Villa, I would love to respond with the best of opinions. However, because I am an American born citizen who lives in Italy, I really have no right to question if someone else has a right to be here. For the most part, it seems as if the Italians have a problem with people who come illegally and engage in less than honorable lifestyles to put it in a nice way. I have to say, in many ways, I can understand their point because it is kind of annoying to sit in a nice restaurant and have some guy walk up to you and try to either sell you something or beg for money. It happened to me as I stood in the vestibule of a church. However, as I have said before, it seems as if everyone tries to assimilate. quote]

I agree - as a non-Italian "guest" it is difficult to say who does and doesn't have a right to be here. However, it is extremely annoying to be accosted by beggars (usually Eastern European) every time you go to the supermarket. Anyone who hasn't come here legally and registered (I very much doubt the beggars have) should be repatriated.

Grazie Mizzday. I too found the Peruvians in Italy to be hard working
honest people.

While in Perugia an eastern European or Albanian couple tried to rob me in broad daylight.
The man was going in my front pocket while his lady accomplice was
similtaneously going in my back pocket. They almost got my wallet and passport.

Seems Albanians have a very bad reputation in Italy. However, met several very nice Albanian people while in Italy.

Anche tutti the Brazilians I met in Italy were very nice.

the question is difficult to answer too considering the fact that not evrybody is bad...

i myself when i came to do my research in the small town where i lived, which is ponte dell'olio, i became the talk of the town, almost everyone was asking what do i do, where do i live, do i like italy..it has been like 5 months now and people are still asking me questions..especially the elder people, but its nice to talk to them especially the old ladies who usually calls me 'tesoro'..haha

back to the main question, the couple that won this year san remo award was not italian origin but she came from i thin either argentina or chile, the other tv personality was the girl who always do the opening on the program 'striscia la notizia', she's a model from brazil...

i think as long as you work decently, pay taxes, not do crime etc, you are very much welcome in Italy...illegals immigrants are the main problem i think because italians think that they are a threat to the society...

i think as long as you work decently, pay taxes, not do crime etc, you are very much welcome in Italy...illegals immigrants are the main problem i think because italians think that they are a threat to the society...

I think this applies to anywhere you go. I have read some reports of how illegal immigration is threating the American way of life for example, with particular emphasis on the problems and burdens it causes.

By the way, Villa, when quoting from sources such as the New York Times, as you have done above, I would quote the source to avoid violating any copyright laws.

People migrate because their original countries are at war and they search better living conditions.
Nobody wants to live in a war torn country and nobody likes to be starving and malnourished all the time. Thats why african
from war torn countries took the risk of crossing the sea in unsafe boat in search of better life. We should not blame them
for doing this because evrybody has the right under the UN Charter of human rights, the right to a better life.

Among the main issue when talking about immigration is whether the society wants to accept and assimilate with these immigrants
or not? Often so, immigrants are shunned away and thats why they stick with their own and formed their own communities because
they felt unwelcomed. But there are also immigrants who do integrate in the society.

If an african obtain an Italian citizenship and he/she speaks italian, work and contibute to tax, does it means he/she is of lesser
worth than of original italian italian?
what about those italians who migrated to America or the koreans who migrated to America and obtained American citizenship? does that
made them of lesser american because they used to be immigrants?

People who came from poorer countries are normally treated with double standards than of those who came from richer countries..take for
examples the middle class british who makes the south of spain their retirement home? they do not mingle with the local spanish people,
neither do they intend to learn spanish...Benidorm is full of british people and the local spanish have became minority in their own place
but because the british spends lots of money there, the spanish govt do not care at all about the local people, what's important is the money they generate...

johny,
If Japan is near to Africa, i am sure that there will be immigrants too in that country, its just that Japan is very far from Africa...

not all immigrants create chaos and there are some immigrants who are of honest and hardworking people, its just that the media likes
to potray the bad and negative side of people instead of the good...

If you say that the increase in crimes are solely the fault of immigrants, then read again the newspaper, the murders done by the Camorra,
by the Ndrangeta, the rubbish in napoli and campania, the drug pusher in Milan, are they immigrants or Italians? Blaming solely the immigrants
for crimes is a crime itself, in America you call that hate crimes isn't it? or is it xenophobia?

Whatever it is, italians or immigrants, we should treat every people with respect

This is very good. Who can argue with it?!

I read with dismay on what is happening in Italy and how they are allowing all these immigrants to be practically invading their country. Italy is not obligated to let people in. Italy is not a melting pot land of immigrants like America is, it is a homogenous country devoloped over centuries and if this continues Italian societ and culture will be forever changed.[/COLOR] Why is Italy allowing this? These foreigners will eventually intimidate Italians and Italians will end up bowing down to them. Every day boat loads of immigtrants cross the Mediterranean and land on Italy's shores. What happened to the agreement Italy had with N.African countries where they would curtail this? These people shouild be shipped back to where they came from and their governments charge for it. How come Christians cant move to Saudia Arabia and build churches there but Italy has to allow them in. Already there are terrorist cells in Italy waiting to harm Italian society and crime is increasing and neighborhoods are being ruined. Japan is a highly devoloped country yet they do not let people in and no one mentions that. Italy has its own problems in the south of the country with unemployment and poverty, they should take care of their own first. I believe in helping those in need but in their own countries. For those who say immigrants are needed because of a low birth rate. Does that make sense? That means let foreigners increase while Italians decrease? the Italian government must encourage Italians to have more children instead. I hope that those who are concerned about this would write to the Italian government and those who are religious would pray this would end and ask for the intercession of St. Pio.

Many people the world over like to think of the USA as the Melting Pot, but to let the truth be told,
Italy is the original Melting Pot. That kind of thing has been going on there for millennia.

Jutting out into the Mediterranean ocean, Italy has a very central location. People have come to the peninsula
from all over. They have come from the Africa to the south. They have come from the Middle East. They have come from
the many different European nations to the north. Italy's central location has made it a logical hub for trade since Roman
times. (even earlier some would say) Additionally, It's central location has made it a desirable military location.

Over the centuries, naturally, some intermingling of the many different peoples has taken place. Evidence of this can be
seen in many different forms. It is witnessed not only in the architecture of the buildings and the various dialects that are
spoken in the different regions, but also in the faces of the people that you meet as you attend to your business each and every day.

This is one of the primary contributing factors in the evolution of the rich history and culture of Italy.

America is not the only Melting Pot in the world!

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I was under the impression the above is what this post is about. If you don't like it don't read or post. But we should have the right to do so if we wish! I may or may not agree with it but defend the right to have it!
Me too! I am getting acquainted with this site and reading many of the posts pertaining to particular subjects. I enjoy reading the individual perspectives on a particular issue. Even more so, from a different country than my own. If this is the title of the thread how can there ever be 'too many' posts? And Johnny posted 6 not 14 times. Is there a limit?

Just watched the Italian movie Lamerica which has nothing to do with America but everything to do with Albanian immigrants to Italy.

The movie is about a couple of Italian con men who travel to ecnomically ravaged Albania after the collapse of Communism there.
The 2 con men try to set up a bogus corporation. One of the con men changes his whole attitude about Albania when he travels
around the slums of Albania. This is a good movie to watch if you are interested in immigrants to Italy.

To understand the film, which takes place in 1991 Albania, a little history is necessary. In 1939, as documented by black-and-white news
reel footage shown during Lamerica's opening credits, Mussolini invaded and occupied Albania. Following World War II, a Soviet-supported
Socialist dictatorship came into power, and nearly all communications with the tiny Balkan nation were cut off. No one was aware of the
staggering level of poverty that persisted until 1991, when the government was overthrown, the borders were opened, and 40,000 Albanians
fled to Italy. The immigrant crush was like the European influx into the United States earlier in the century, with Italy being viewed by
the Albanians as "their America" (hence the title, with the absent apostrophe in "L'America" intended to represent
the semi-literacy of the Albanians).

Review: Lamerica is a modern-day story steeped in history, ...
www.reelviews.net/movies/l/lamerica.html - 8k - Cached - Similar pages

I read with dismay on what is happening in Italy and how they are allowing all these immigrants to be practically invading their country. Italy is not obligated to let people in. It is not a melting pot land of immigrants like America is, it is a homogenous country devoloped over centuries and if this continues Italian societ and culture will be forever changed. Why is Italy allowing this? These foreigners will eventually intimidate Italians and Italians will end up bowing down to them. Every day boat loads of immigtrants cross the Mediterranean and land on Italy's shores. What happened to the agreement Italy had with N.African countries where they would curtail this? These people shouild be shipped back to where they came from and their governments charge for it. How come Christians cant move to Saudia Arabia and build churches there but Italy has to allow them in. Already there are terrorist cells in Italy waiting to harm Italian society and crime is increasing and neighborhoods are being ruined. Japan is a highly devoloped country yet they do not let people in and no one mentions that. Italy has its own problems in the south of the country with unemployment and poverty, they should take care of their own first. I believe in helping those in need but in their own countries. For those who say immigrants are needed because of a low birth rate. Does that make sense? That means let foreigners increase while Italians decrease? the Italian government must encourage Italians to have more children instead. I hope that those who are concerned about this would write to the Italian government and those who are religious would pray this would end and ask for the intercession of St. Pio.
f**k off racist do you think they are not human. do you think i heaven you wil be secluded and God treat you special. we were created one and in likeness of God who are you to put boundaries between people we shall live in harmony with all because italians are also welcome in all nations of the world....RACISTA

An emotive subject unfortunately at home in many countries across the globe, whether it's religion, skin colour or the language, usually fuelled by lack of education, selfnishness and greed. There is a saying my country which goes "true equality begins in the graveyard" and it is not just referring to equality between the sexes.

...............There is a saying my country which goes "true equality begins in the graveyard" ........

A very sad, but very true proverb.

there are a lot of Italians descendants in South America: Argentina,Brazil,Uruguay and Chili
I'm from a Italian village in Brazil where every body speak Italian and Portugues and some people speak German as well. we all have Italian and German citizenship... I want to relocate to Africa this year so i can help all the poor hungry children over there ! don't forgert 1 world