Some of my personal thougths:

Beauty of the Country : Both beautiful lets play it safe ok ….
Historical Monuments / Variety of landscape: Of course Italy has thousands of Medieval towns as well as Impressive Roman Greek Etruscan civilizations remains
Night Life Italy wins: dinner at 6pm is not allowed in the old country. Just look at the Estate Romana as one of the after dinner activities
Government bureaucracy No competition here either: Much easier to deal here in the US
MVA Well except the MVA : In Italy if you buy a used car / motorcycle all you do is go to a local ACI ( usually there is no line ) you pay a small fee and the car is in your name - In the US the Maryland MVA is extremely expensive ( You have to pay taxes again ) service is lousy and is extremely time consuming
Nepotism: A real big problem in Italy
Finding a job: Much easier in the US
Tax system : US wins – In Italy the system in awful.
Retirement: Both countries are good for retirement
Holidays: Italy has much more holidays - people should enjoy the only life they have for sure. If it still true workers get 5 weeks vacations in Italy + bridges etc etc.
Quality of life: Could be great in both places … as long as you have enough Dollar or Euros ….
Universities: I studies in both places and US universities where ( at least in the late 80s ) further ahead - The 2006 estimate of 42.000 dollar a year for expected expenses for a student a Cornell university is a scary number however.
Foreign Policy: US is still trying to the run the rest of the world.
Freedom of thought: Ok in both country
Chances to make it from nothing: If you are a poor immigrant in Italy you are in deep dudu.
Razism: Different culture / races mix better in the US … I think… I do not believe: that Italian are racists but until a few years ago Italy had virtually no other cultures. Today lots of immigrants come with no money and no prospect and they turn to crime to survive… anyway this maybe too long a subject…I will postpone it.
Sports: When Italy won the world cup the whole country East to West - North to South went crazy. The US do not have a 'united' popular sport to play against other country except the Olympics of course. Evan car races are separate from Formula one . To prove this note that if the redskins win is not a US win against the rest of the world, there are no celebrations for example in California
Heath Care: Free service in Italy: at least for major issues that requires Hospitalization all is taken care by the state.
Culture : what?
Music: Rock and Roll Rules !
Movies: Hollywood runs the box office.
Women: Better not touch this one, don't you think so ?
Man: Same as above.

Please add your thoughts....

I have to disagree with one point of yours, in particular retirement. In Italy a woman is treated better, than in the U.S.A. Here in Italy women get a "house wife's" ("pensione di casalinga") pension from the Italian government, that is based on all the years they were married: it takes into consideration the domestic work they have done and being financially compensated for it (housework, childbearing, other duties) via a pension fund. There is nothing of this in the works in the U.S.A. So, from this standpoint, I think, the Italian "way" offers more all-around for both men and women who work--whether at home doing domestic work or in a company, or public institution. Women's contribution to the gross domestic product (GDP) as an externality is acknowledged, unlike in the USA where such economic contribution is not taken into account for calculating a given country's GDP. (Women's housecleaning, laundering of clothes etc are examples of externalities).
For a woman who has devoted here entire or part of her life to the domestic sphere, is being compensated. she gets her own pension.
My two Eurocents worth,
Karin

University life experience for students is different in Italy than it is in the U.S.A. The first thing I noticed is the way students and faculty interact, and it is much different here in Italy. In Italy it is more formal, whereas in the U.S.A. there is much more interaction between instructors and students. Also women students are treated better and taken more seriously, I think, in the U.S.A. as compared to Italy. Students in the U.S.A. are not so reluctant to ask a question in class, whereas here in Italy, I saw students more reserved; I noticed this because I was lecturing. In the U.S.A. students are more self sufficient; many students have to work to support there studies and also mostly live away from their parents either in the University dormitories or in their own apartment; they are more independent and extroverted than their Italian counterparts in terms of having to survive on their own and to succeed in the life. In the U.S.A. there are more socializing opportunities at colleges and universities, for instance there is an abundance of extracurricular activities, like sports, and student organizatins on every subject you could imagine from bridge clubs and literature societies to golf and ski clubs. Things are much more relaxed in the U.S.A. Also, the colleges and universities are much larger in size, some of them almost like cities in themselves.

Night life.....It depends what you mean. I think for young people night life is good all over Italy. But for people who are in their forties for example, at least here in Milano, where I live, it is VERY boring. Of course, you have aperitivo from 7-9 in the early evenings. In Milano the aperitivo culture is fun and its blossoming, but when you go to some smaller towns, it gets really boring. Torino is a very nice place for aperitivo, but in the late evening it is a dead city. In Milano, beyond the aperitivo hour, for the forty-plus crowd, Milan, is very boring; restaurant culture shuts down by 10-11:00 pm. In Rome I always have a great time. In Rome people go out late to eat and enjoy the life.
In comparing the U.S.A with Italian night life.....well there is of course a lot to say about the U.S.A and this geographically dependent, too. I will just say a few brief things. New Orleans, sadly, is not the place it used to be, but when I lived there it was "going" all night long and so were the small cities directly on the Mississippi Coast. I was used to this culture and when I came to Italy, especially Rome, I had the similar feeling. But, then in the Mid-west U.S.A, it gets a bit boring. New York has great night life and, of course, many cities in California have much to boast about. I think that if you are in Italy and want to have a nice evening out, you must go to Rome. There is no place like Rome !

Wow, what a great subject.

But first, I need to preface this with a disclaimer: I fell in love with Italy when I was 7-years-old and saw pictures of Hadrian's Villa... the canals of Venice... David... the ruins of the Roman Forum... the Duomo of Florence... the villas of Tuscany... and the love affair has only gotten stronger with time.

So my first reaction is to say that Italy is simply the best place to live. Breaking it down into categories, though, is a great way to show that love sometimes overlooks realities. I'll touch on some of Paolo's categories here.

Both countries are indeed beautiful - the USA might have more variety simply because it is bigger and encompasses more possible landscapes.
Historical Landmarks - no question here, Italy is rich with history. The Romans (the Etruscans before them) - and indeed, all the people throughout history who have peopled what is now the Italian country - built and painted and created and designed and sculpted their world, allowing the millions of visitors and inhabitants through the ages a window into their lives. The USA has history, of course, but the oldest buildings are young in comparison, the art is fleeting, and the traces of anyone who lived here 2000 years ago is faint, if it exists at all.
Night Life: I'm not an expert here though I know that restaurants and clubs in Italy open later and stay open longer. Dinner can take a wonderful three hours, and at midnight the clubs are just getting started.
Culture: Depending on your definition, of course... does America have a culture? We talk about American culture, we think we know what it means... but is it cohesive? Does 'culture' in Louisiana mean the same as 'culture' in Los Angeles? Does 'culture' in New York mean anything close to what it might mean in Duluth? Short answer... Italy's culture seems (from an outsider's point of view) to be more cohesive, something one could actually identify... though the country itself hasn't been unified for very long.
If on the other hand what you mean by culture is some kind of way of life involving museum visits and music and great, masterful art and literature, and fine food and wine... then either place would probably have CULTURE... and Italy would seem to have a larger variety of cultural possibilities, and certainly more exposure simply because walking through any city in Italy is an experience filled with that kind of culture.
Sports: I was in Italy this summer (2006) during the World Cup Championship. I've never seen anything like the celebrations erupting around me every time Italy not only won but simply played a match. It is indeed a national sport, and we have nothing here that compares. One simple example: when Italy won the final, the entire city of Rome roared - literally. For hours. Venice exploded with sound and joy and the popping of corks. And in no corner of the country was the game not a subject of conversation for weeks. Even the Olympics doesn't garner that kind of support and interest from those of us here in the USA.
Women: I believe that the most beautiful women in the world are in Rome... but I have learned that what I find beautiful is not necessarily Roman/Italian women, but the variety from all over the globe. And, my apologies up front to American women (one of which I am), but Italians - and those visiting Italy - seem to take clothing much more seriously, they dress for their own pleasure, and they look great whether they're taking out the garbage or going out to dinner.
Men: I love Italian men. They are (yes, I am generalizing, shamelessly) handsome and charming and sort of languidly sensual. Not all, of course, and not all the time, but often enough for me to consider it a national identity trait. Biased... stereotyped... call it what you will. There's something about an Ialian man's approach to both life and love that I find quite intriguing.
Quality of life, which ties into the job market: I agree with Paolo. Quality of life could be great in either place, depending on you lifestyle and your finances. Getting a job is much more difficult in Italy, especially for a foreigner. So... if you're independently wealthy, living in Italy would be magic.
Where would I live? Italy for that very magic... Life in Italy is life lived sensuously. I would wander the streets of Venice and watch the shadows play in the dark water of the canals, and listen to the singing coming from windows ten feet above me... I would walk through the Roman Forum before 9 in the morning, imagining Cleopatra and Ceasar and Marc Antony walking beside me... I would listen for my footsteps echoing through the curved streets of Siena, waiting for a whisper of hoofbeats... and I would sit on the edge of Lake Como with a bottle of wine, a loaf of bread, and a dream.

The good and the bad equal out in each country, I think, and the choice comes down to what you love.

Hello,

There are many people who really don't know what "culture" is. Let me define it in a way that most can understand.
Culture is "everything" a group /community of peoples or ethnic group "has, thinks, and does". Basically, the "have, think and do" refers to the language, social norms (secular or religious influenced usually), creating art and music, religion, dress, food preparation, social institutions, technology, and its cultural practices (e.g. medical treatment, agricultural practices, journalism, the media). America does have culture, but it would be more appropriate to say many cultures, and also as a "cultural melting pot". The U.S.A is not anymore unified in its "culture" than the Italian culture is. Italy does not have a unified cohesive culture. When some people say America has one culture, I think it is because they confuse and consider "liberalism" as some sort of branding of cultural identity. The way to define liberalism is that it is 'the' ideology of having no ideology. An ideology may or not be part of a culture's identity. The U.S.A. is a country of immigrants. Italy was never known to be a country of immigrants, but now that has changed. Some may even say that what has been described as Italy has always had histories of cultural influence from the outside. Back in the 900's there were the Morrocon invasions and cultural settlement in the South of Italy. (There is so much to write about the ethnohistory of Italy) But, when speaking of modern Italy, it is not a land of immigrants as the U.S.A. is. There are many ethnic groups in the U.S.A too, even communities having ther own dialects, take the Hispanic cultures for instance, who in various locations and cities across the U.S.A. adhere to their specific cultural identity via language (Spanish has a presence in the USA). Some U.S. states (back in the 1770 and 1800's) had numerous German-speaking, or Norwegian-speaking areas and the local cultures we have today in some midwestern states have evolved from those ethnic groups. I lived in Louisiana and what I can say is that they have various cultures, not one. In fact I learned just the other day that it was not white women , but African -Creole American women who were first 'women' allowed to own property in Louisiana in certain cultural areas (back in 1800's). Canada is a very good example of a country with pluralistic cultures. Each of these have their own 'local' history, dialects, arts, religions. I don't agree that Italian culture is more cohesive. Italy is NOT cohesive. I suggest reading Geoff Andrews book: Not a Normal Country: Italy after Berlusconi. Very interesting. If one knows anything at all about Italian culture, you will see that it is a country with many diverse cultures, each embracing their own way of life through food preparation, the local dialect, how they treat health/medical problems, agricultural practices, dress, and many other things. The official Italian language only was declared in the mid 20th century , 1940's I think (used the Tuscanese dialect as its model for high-Italian), before that time it was a land ruled by Nobles and each region had its dialects, and this was the situation all over Italy. Dialect diversity is still strong today. Italy has Aoasta (the Valdostaner culture), The South Tirol (Germanic culture language), Piemonte (Piemontese, French-Savoy influenced), Sardegna and ,then there are other areas, so many of them. One area that fascinates me is the south of Italy where there was a strong Greek influence, especially as it relates to medical culture (Hippocrates). To say that Italy is a unified culture would be an insult to the Italian diverse ways of life and the homeland it 'is' for millions of people in this country. And, we must also realize that not one culture is better than another one or 'is' the "one and only" Italian culture. Italy has many Italian cultures and each of these cultures 'thinks' it 'is' the Italian culture. Each and every one of the regional cultures dotting the landscape of this hilly, beautiful intriguing country 'is' Italian. Many times over the years since living here, I have heard many foreign people here refer to Tuscany as the 'real' Italy, this is not correct. Cultural identity is not so easy to talk about either, because it can tred on nationalistic thinking, it is sensitive.
Italy as a pasticcio of diverse "Italian" cultures?
ciao,
Karin
copyright (c) 2006 Karin Fester Scala

Hi Karin,

I actually agree with you about your thoughts about culture. In fact, my Master's degree was in Cultural Theory so I'm familiar with the pitfalls of talking about a concept this slippery.

What I was saying in my post is exactly what you said... that to speak of America or Italy -- or any other country -- as having ONE culture doesn't make much sense, exactly because so many different things -- EVERYTHING a group... has thinks and does -- go into making up a culture. To break down the concept, I used very simple definitions of what 'culture' might mean in the context of this Forum. I.e., culture as defined as 'art, theatre, classical music, etc. versus culture as defined by what makes up Italian or American culture. (See above for caveat here, about the slippery concept of culture.)

I think, without much debate, it is easy to say that American culture differs from Italian culture. But that in itself is an artificial dichotomy, and assumes cohesion where not much exists. That's fine... but it's also then almost impossible to talk about anything unless one decides to delineate concepts.

It is tempting to think of a culture as definable by language, maybe, or by a type of food. Not (necessarily) true. But it is also unrealistic to say that one can't say something like "Italian culture" and be understood.

I do know the history of Italy, and the fact that it wasn't a unified country until recently, and also that the languages from various parts of the country are different enough that it is quite difficult for some people in the north to understand some people in the south, and vice versa, and that the food is different from region to region. And so on.

However.
What I wanted to say here in the Forum was not that I thought Italy was all one culture, or that the USA was one culture (or that Louisiana was one culture... although, an argument could be made that the culture of Louisiana IS different than the culture of New York, just as American culture is different than Italian -- while allowing for the fact that there isn't truly a cohesive unit to talk about in either case), but that to speak of whether either is better is simply silly.

For the reasons you state, as well as for the fact that 'better' is itself an artificial and value-laden construct, and therefore varies from person to person or group to group, it is impossible to say whether one is better.

I was simply stating my feeling, my ideas, my concept that Italian 'culture,' from an outsider's point of view, seems somehow more interesting, more inclusive, than American culture. Precisely because of what you state -- that America is a nation of immigrants from its inception -- everyone therefore sees and lives in his/her own culture, seeing the others as somehow different. But I also know that this IS indeed an outsider's perception, and that it makes little sense to assume that because I've been to Italy a bunch of times that I understand all of Italian culture(s).

I would never dream of saying -- and did not in my post say -- that one part of Italy is best... that one type of food is better, that one type of art, or music, or landscape, or anything, is the 'real' Italy.

I agree with your points.
I was simply trying to talk about "Italian" culture in the spirit in which the Forum here seems to be looking at things: living in Italy IS fundamentally different than living in the USA, and to talk about either of those countries, and the differences therein, it is necessary to create and use maybe artificial boundaries and concepts and groups and categories. Acknowledging that is the key, but talking about differences between the two 'cultures' is important in this discussion as well.

So, having said all that, I think it's fair to say that there must be something in Italy that attracts people -- just as there is something in any other country that might attract people -- that is different than what people are used to, know, and live surrounded by every day. "Italian culture" while maybe not a 'real' thing, DOES exist on some level, because we can easily use that term and everyone who hears it understands that it means something different than "American culture." It is at that point perfectly reasonable to assume that each person who hears those words and/or says them, has a different image/concept in mind that goes with them. That doesn't invalidate the concept.

I think the key is keeping in mind exactly what you said... that no matter the country, culture varies from region to region, from person to person, from dinner table to dinner table. And yet, we need to be able to talk about countries other than our own -- and our own as well -- and understand that there are differences between them -- often significant ones. The cultures ARE different.

Otherwise, choosing to live in Siena or Moscow or Detroit or London or Havana would be easy because they all, essentially, would be the same. And they aren't.

Italy is what it is -- a pasticcio of cultures. So are most other countries. And each of those mixes is quite a bit different than most of the others. To be able to talk about them is essential, and to do this without reducing them to caricatures is the challenge.

Teresa

Firstly I would like to say how can you compare the diffrences of Itlay and the USA? There are no comparisons..Culture to me a universal and depends on the indivduals upbringing and understanding and education, where we are from and opening up to other individuals way of life.It is all down to opinions and personal views.
I live in the uk with an Italian and we are hoping to move to his home of Venice in the future,
Once we save enough money as its very expensive to buy property with it being the most unique city in the world ' my opinion as of many others'
We go back as often as possible and the excitment of returning is over whelming, getting off the plane and his family meeting us at the airport, we jump in the boat and speed to Venice which you see in the horizon and the beauty fills my heart more and more. I immerse myself in the culture his family do not speak english so I am learning at school in the UK Ventian is a unique dialect and as you prob know it's different all over Italy which is the world over. I am from scotland and the east and west are so different. People for the north of scotland are even harder to understand.
His family treat me as part of their own and I feel loved. The Italians amaze me how close and caring they are with each other, lots of people in other countries could learn what it means to feel the passion of family.
We go the market and buy fresh fruit, veg, fish and meat I enjoy the hustle and chat of the ventiains at the market the air is full of chat and laughter.. a quick esspresso and home to prepare an exquisiet lunch.
In the evening Venice is mysterious and Enchanting, full of history you feel you have stepped back in time. i love how the Italians celebrate festivals with huge parties with outatanding fireworks and festivities all year. Making the uk very dull in that dept.
I travelled round the whole of Italy and it was the best trip ever from Largo Di Garda to Sciliy to see Mount Etna erupt.. what a memory.. I have travelled the world met amazing people from all walks of life in Asia and I can truly say Viva Italiana.. the best for me...

Firstly I would like to say how could you compare the differences of Italy and the USA? There are no comparisons..Culture to me a universal and depends on the individuals upbringing and understanding and education, where we are from and opening up to other individuals way of life. It is all down to opinions and personal views.
I live in the UK with an Italian and we are hoping to move to his home of Venice in the future,
Once we save enough money, as it’s very expensive to buy property with it being the most unique city in the world ‘my opinion as of many others'
We go back as often as possible and the excitement of returning is over whelming, getting off the plane and his family meeting us at the airport, we jump in the boat and speed to Venice which you see in the horizon and the beauty fills my heart more and more. I immerse myself in the culture his family do not speak English so I am learning at school in the UK Venetian is a unique dialect and as you prob know it's different all over Italy which is the world over. I am from Scotland and the east and west are so different. People for the north of Scotland are even harder to understand.
His family treats me as part of their own and I feel loved. The Italians amaze me how close and caring they are with each other, lots of people in other countries could learn what it means to feel the passion of family.
We go the market and buy fresh fruit, veg, fish and meat I enjoy the hustle and chat of the ventiains at the market the air is full of chat and laughter. A quick espresso and home to prepare an exquisite lunch.
In the evening Venice is mysterious and enchanting, full of history you feel you have stepped back in time. I love how the Italians celebrate festivals with huge parties with outstanding fireworks and festivities all year. Making the UK very dull in that dept.
I travelled round the whole of Italy and it was the best trip ever from Largo DI Garda to Scilly to see Mount Etna erupt. What a memory. I have travelled the world met amazing people from all walks of life in Asia and I can truly say Viva Italiana. The best for me...
:D

Firstly I would like to say how could you compare the differences of Italy and the USA? There are no comparisons..Culture to me a universal and depends on the individuals upbringing and understanding and education, where we are from and opening up to other individuals way of life. It is all down to opinions and personal views.
I live in the UK with an Italian and we are hoping to move to his home of Venice in the future,
Once we save enough money, as it’s very expensive to buy property with it being the most unique city in the world ‘my opinion as of many others'
We go back as often as possible and the excitement of returning is over whelming, getting off the plane and his family meeting us at the airport, we jump in the boat and speed to Venice which you see in the horizon and the beauty fills my heart more and more. I immerse myself in the culture his family do not speak English so I am learning at school in the UK Venetian is a unique dialect and as you prob know it's different all over Italy which is the world over. I am from Scotland and the east and west are so different. People for the north of Scotland are even harder to understand.
His family treats me as part of their own and I feel loved. The Italians amaze me how close and caring they are with each other, lots of people in other countries could learn what it means to feel the passion of family.
We go the market and buy fresh fruit, veg, fish and meat I enjoy the hustle and chat of the ventiains at the market the air is full of chat and laughter. A quick espresso and home to prepare an exquisite lunch.
In the evening Venice is mysterious and enchanting, full of history you feel you have stepped back in time. I love how the Italians celebrate festivals with huge parties with outstanding fireworks and festivities all year. Making the UK very dull in that dept.
I travelled round the whole of Italy and it was the best trip ever from Largo DI Garda to Scilly to see Mount Etna erupt. What a memory. I have travelled the world met amazing people from all walks of life in Asia and I can truly say Viva Italiana. The best for me...
:D[/QUOTE]

Ciao Paolo.. Thanks Karin for such an indepth explanation--

I tend to not see your point on races mixing better in the USA. I'll give you an example...
A biggy is that northerners and southerners still have a hard time excepting either other, in the south I was called a yankee right off the bat, and our views greatly divide into different directions.
In Europe I clearly notice that blacks are not looked at as supiscious.

In southern America it is very backwards. My brother had a black friend in which they entered a drugstore together. Five minutes after they left, the woman called the police saying they were plotting a robbery...because my brother's friend had black skin. They stopped them on the highway, ransacking his car, and later destroyed his friend's apartment. This was only 8 years ago.
In college a rampage broke out because the English professor mentioned a black woman in his speech. If the Italians are more racist then Americans, they sure don't go so public with it.
The Quality of Life It is more restful in Italy, easier in the US--the only thing is; the quality of the food in the US is extremely poor and poisonous, not to mention "Frankenfoods" that are currently prevailing.
Culture I am not such an expert on this one like Karin is, but I believe that any "culture" that America has anywhere in the USA depends on who brought it in, from where, how long ago, and how they adhere to it. You see spurts of culture, but many times they stem from the old cultures, that are now mixed with "non-cultural" habits of people being in the U.S. I believe for 5 generations or so.

Many people idealize Europe before they live here! I did it myself. Now that I live in Italy, I can truly appreciate some things I took for granted in the USA. One of the major adjustments for me was that life is so much slower in Italy. This is a beautiful thing in some circumstances but a nightmare in other circumstances. USA is much more efficient!

Italy on the other hand has a much better social life. People go out often here and are friendly to newcomers. I prefer the social scene in Italy to the USA. And the food, do I need to explain?

I am jealous of those lucky enough to live in Italy, providing you can afford it. Been all over and would love to retire there, however my roots and children are the U.S.A We do not have the 'culture' ,food, way of life and the beauty Italy has, that is for sure. As an American I dislike saying this so much. We we can learn from them. However, our efficency hurts our quality of life in these areas. For example, food is about cheap here, mass production and it will never change.
However, we are so much more efficient in bussiness and policies that Italians can learn from us. Doubt they care. Just not the farms please!
Thing that I always tell italians are they should appreciate how lucky they are living where they do. They do not see this ,only complain and complain. They just do not realize. Now that there are open EU borders I think Italians will realize this as rich EU citizens will move there more and more.
As for the job market, double edge sword, if it Italy became a job magnet the Italians will find themselves a minority in their own country and the culture would dissapear and become...oh no..'Amercan like'.

ralphv, you are absolutely correct about the fast life in the US. I’m not sure that I would want to move to Italy as a young person especially if looking for a job. But as a near-retiree, the slow pace of Italy is exactly what I want. I’ll gladly give up my SUV for a Vespa, my McBurger for a focaccia e salame, and my Spaghetti-O for linguini a la pomarola. I realize that some things in Italy are too slow – banks and post offices come to mind, but who wants life to go by so fast anyway? Ha, the joy of an antipasto, primo piatto, secondo piatto, insalata, dolce e un caffé. Che bel paese!

This will seem simplistic, but what I see comparing my friends in the US with my friends in Italy is that the Americans all have way more stuff - packed into way bigger houses and cars - but spend every waking momoent paying for all that stuff, organizing it, researching what they want to buy next - but mostly working to earn more money to buy more. It can take weeks to organize a get together because everyone is so busy working, travelling for work, etc. Our Italian friends have far less in terms of what they own, but they have much more leisure time and much richer social lives. It is also true that my friends in America tend to be white colar tyopes and my friends in Italy are more blue collar, so maybe that is a contributing factor. But I just see Americnas always putting work first, and Italians putting their personal lives first.

But which wins in the most important topic of all?

Cars ;)

Yes the United States and the "Big Three" (Chrysler, GM, Ford) are actually slowly plummeting and staying in the red, while Ford is sending its workers away to save money, and Chrysler is resorting to desperate measures to keep its owners with a lifetime powertrain warranty nowadays...

But what about Fiat? Ten years ago people would have told you Fiat would be extinct by 2007 with how bad they were doing, but thats not the case! In fact their stock has been rising for years now, and with the release of the Fiat 500 and other surprisingly good cars, Fiat is a superpower.

Now for the real superpowers though, Ferrari is still Ferrari and with a new model expected soon they'll have no problems selling them all before they're even made. Lamborghini is making a newer million-dollar supercar, and Maserati is coming out with some daring and beautiful styling...

However, Ford in Europe is doing very well indeed, but that does not count in this bout versus the US and Italy.

So Italy wins this match.

Cars, the most important topic of all???:rolleyes: Actually, I live in the U.S. and would never own a Ford. I don't care what kind of warranty they offer. Their reputation sucks, and jokes are constantly being made about the reliability of their vehicles. I'm surprised they're such a big hit in Europe and I wonder why that is? I've owned a Toyota Tacoma for 5 years now and I absolutely love it....although it's not nearly as stylish as a Maserati!;)

Cars, the most important topic of all???:rolleyes: Actually, I live in the U.S. and would never own a Ford. I don't care what kind of warranty they offer. Their reputation sucks, and jokes are constantly being made about the reliability of their vehicles. I'm surprised they're such a big hit in Europe and I wonder why that is? I've owned a Toyota Tacoma for 5 years now and I absolutely love it....although it's not nearly as stylish as a Maserati!;)

Ahem:

The reputation of Ford has dwindled, yes. However, Ford still has the best selling pickup in the WORLD, literally. It also has the best crash test rating that any car can receive, while Toyota's pickup that is in competition with Ford cannot. The Ford F series is one of the most reliable trucks out there.

The Ford Focus is in the exact same category as the F series. It has been a hit worldwide as well, and in 2001 and 2002 it was the best selling car in the world, although its net income has been down in the last year.

Yes, the Japanese superpowers do have many more options out there, but to say that Ford sucks with no real backup, its just a stereotype that Ford has had since the Pinto. THAT was a mistake in design for sure...

Anyways, if you didn't know, I manage the car section here on the forum, hence my ;) to the car world in my original post. Oh and I don't have a Ford, I have a '91 BMW.

I love what you have to say in this post.
Thank you Gigi

If one knows anything at all about Italian culture, you will see that it is a country with many diverse cultures, each embracing their own way of life through food preparation, the local dialect, how they treat health/medical problems, agricultural practices, dress, and many other things.

Many times in my life I have wanted to explain why I feel Italy is where I need to be and where I am drawn to. Your words in this post have given me the vocabulary I needed so many times. Thank you so much.
Gigalina

Razism: Different culture / races mix better in the US … I think… I do not believe: that Italian are racists but until a few years ago Italy had virtually no other cultures. Today lots of immigrants come with no money and no prospect and they turn to crime to survive… anyway this maybe too long a subject…I will postpone it.

The races mix better in the U.S.:D You got me rolling on the floor with laughter! The U.S. has traditionally been the most racist country in the entire world. They say that South Africa got many of their racist policies from the U.S. For years the U.S. had very strict laws against mixed marriage. In California alone their were laws on record againt Chinese, blacks and other minorities marrying whites. That's just in California. Now imagine in the South of The United States where racism has traditionally been entrenched and realativly much worse than anywhere else in the U.S. Hanging Blacks or lynching was as common as apple pie. A black person could be killed just for being accused of looking at a White woman. Don't think there was much mixing going on there not by marriage anyway! The police would routinely stop Black people and just beat the hell out of them or kill them for nothing.(Wait! That's still going on!) You could run a Black person down with a car and he would be blamed for not getting out of the way. If a Black person was injured white hospitals would not take them in. Now you think a white person would be mixing with Blacks. By the way they also lynched Italians and burned Catholic churches. One Jew was lynched for murder even though he was innocent.

(New York use to have signs saying if you are Italian, Irish or German don't even bother to apply for a job here.) Point is there was racism againt everybody.

No dogs or Jews allowed! Have you seen the recent televison 3 part series on Jewish Americans? So much racism in the U.S.

No dogs or Mexicans allowed! This was a common sign you would see thoughout California, Texas, Colorado and the whole South Western United States. Mexicans, Cubans and all Hispanics weren't allowed in movie theaters, swimming pools or anyother White places White went to including schools. (American Indians were treated even worse if this were possible!) (A Mexican friend of mine was married to a Cuban in the 50's. They would not rent to them in Whittier, Calif.) Not much mixing going on there either. They say there were more lynchings of Mexicans in Texas than there were of Blacks in the South. Mexicans and Hispanics in general would receive harsher sentencing for the same crimes Whites would commit. If a white woman was involved with minorities during a crime the minorites would receive more years in prison.

Have you ever seen the I Love Lucy Show? They told Lucy she could not do a show about her being married to a Cuban. She said but I am married to a Cuban! You just did not marry an Hispanic at that time. And it's not a whole lot different now!
In 1948, Ball was cast as Liz Cugat (later "Cooper"), a wacky wife, in My Favorite Husband, a radio program for CBS Radio. The program was successful, and CBS asked her to develop it for television. She agreed, but insisted on working with the Cuban Arnaz. CBS executives were reluctant, thinking the public would not accept an All-American redhead and a Cuban as a couple. CBS was initially not impressed with the pilot episode produced by the couple's Desilu Productions company, so the couple toured the road in a vaudeville act with Lucy as the zany housewife wanting to get in Arnaz's show. The tour was a smash, and CBS put I Love Lucy on their lineup.

Well, of course things are better now but not as much as you would think. I know I'm married to an Hispanic. Believe you me racism is still alive in the U.S. I know somebody will come on here and say things aren't that bad in the U.S. anymore etc. etc. But no doubt it will be somebody who is not married to a minority or is not a minority themselves and really just does not know what's going on. Have been a teacher for over 30 years working day and night in minority communities. I see what goes on. Things are better but not like people will try to tell you they are.

Go to Beverly Hills or anyother afluent place and see how many Blacks or other minorities are living there or mixing with White people or working in any of the schools or stores even. Go to any university and see how many Blacks, Hispanics and other minorities are enrolled and mixing. Could go on and on about this.

Now let's take a look at Italy for racism as compared to the U.S.. Have you ever heard of Franco Harris? Franco Harris is a Black Italian all time great American pro running back. His mother was Italian and his father was a Black U.S. soldier during world world ll in Italy. The point is many U.S. Black soldiers were free with no problems to marry Italians when a Black person here in the U.S. was not even allowed to look at a White woman.

I lived in Italy for 2 years with 4 Black American room mates. We went out together all the time. My Black friends at that time(a long time ago)were treated like human beings by all the Italians we met. In fact they preferred them over White Americans. Had a good Mexican friend too in Italy. All the Italians treated him like a long lost brother. He spoke Italian and fitted in better than you can imagine. Now compare that to how Mexicans have been traditionally treated in the U.S.

I have often wondered why this was. For one thing you have to remember that the Roman Empire was the first truely molti-cultural society where people came from all over the world. So people got use to mixing and being around people from all over of different races.

That reminds me. The U.S. imposed trict immigration laws not allowing in people from countries that were not quote on quote White like the typical WASP.(White Anglo Saxson Protestant)

I am a black woman who travels to Italy twice a year. While vacationing in Italy, I feel comfortable in Italy than I do in America. Many of my associates in the military who are black say the same. I just purchased a house in Abruzzo, Italy and I find the people pleasant and friendly towards me. When I purchased my house in Arizona, my neighbor asked what made me purchased a house in this neighborhood. I thought it was a strange questioned. Yes, the village in Italy and the neighhood in Arizona, there are very few blacks. No one in my village in Italy looked at me stranged.

Paolo,
MVA Well except the MVA : In Italy if you buy a used car / motorcycle all you do is go to a local ACI ( usually there is no line ) you pay a small fee and the car is in your name - In the US the Maryland MVA is extremely expensive ( You have to pay taxes again ) service is lousy and is extremely time consuming

In Italy when you buy a used car you pay between € 350 to € 500 for " passaggio di proprieta'" in order to put the car in your name.
You pay taxes every year " Bollo di circolazione" , mine was around € 200 and goes up every year even if the vehicle gets older and, therefore is worted less, contrary to Virginia where the property tax gets lower as the vehicle gets older.
Now, is true that in Italy very few people pay the "Bollo" since there is no requirement to expose it as before and the police does not ask anyone to show it if they stop you but...that's another story.....
By law, if you do not pay the BOLLO for 2 years your vehicle may be and can be confiscated -




Calcolo del bollo auto

Per conoscere l’importo del bollo da versare, occorre inserire il numero di targa del veicolo (senza spaziature), selezionare il tipo di pagamento e la categoria del veicolo.
Prima di procedere con il calcolo del bollo, è indispensabile verificare con attenzione i dati introdotti perché dall'esattezza di questi dipende il corretto calcolo della tassa automobilistica.


Per i residenti nelle Regioni e nelle Province Autonome convenzionate con l’ACI - (Abruzzo, Basilicata, Calabria, Emilia Romagna, Lazio, Lombardia, Puglia, Toscana, Umbria, Provincia Autonoma di Trento e Provincia Autonoma di Bolzano) - il calcolo del bollo viene effettuato sulla base dei dati presenti negli Archivi Regionali e Provinciali gestiti dall’ACI, mentre per i residenti nelle Regioni non convenzionate il calcolo del bollo viene eseguito con collegamento all’Archivio Unico Nazionale (SGATA) gestito dal Ministero delle Finanze.

E' possibile che i dati di alcuni pagamenti già effettuati per il periodo in corso - anche se acquisiti - non siano stati ancora inseriti negli archivi. In questo caso, la procedura effettua il calcolo (comprensivo di eventuali sanzioni e interessi) ma non esclude che il pagamento sia già stato correttamente eseguito.

ATTENZIONE:
il pagamento della tassa automobilistica può essere effettuato solo a partire dal 1° giorno del mese successivo a quello di scadenza dell'ultimo bollo pagato. Per questo motivo il servizio da noi offerto calcola l'importo dovuto solo a partire da tale giorno.
Esempio: il calcolo del bollo con scadenza agosto 2006 può essere effettuato solo dal 1° settembre 2006.
Se si vuole effettuare il pagamento in anticipo, è possibile farlo nel mese di scadenza del bollo in corso di validità (tranne il mese di dicembre) selezionando la relativa tipologia di pagamento (Pagamento Anticipato).

NEW!!
I residenti nelle Regioni e nelle Province Autonome convenzionate con l’ACI possono, eseguito il calcolo del bollo, pagarlo on line.
Il pagamento on line è possibile solo per rinnovare il pagamento del bollo di un veicolo già circolante: al momento non è utilizzabile per gli altri tipi di pagamento (es. primo pagamento di veicolo nuovo di fabbrica).
Dati del mezzo

http://www.aci.it/

"I am a black woman who travels to Italy twice a year. While vacationing in Italy, I feel comfortable in Italy than I do in America. Many of my associates in the military who are black say the same. I just purchased a house in Abruzzo, Italy and I find the people pleasant and friendly towards me. When I purchased my house in Arizona, my neighbor asked what made me purchased a house in this neighborhood. I thought it was a strange questioned. Yes, the village in Italy and the neighhood in Arizona, there are very few blacks. No one in my village in Italy looked at me stranged."

My point exactly! Grazie GI Lady.

We're you in Vicenza?